Pharyngula

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Tuesday, May 03, 2005

A nonsensical atheist

Ophelia Benson has been on a tear lately—first she rips into Ruse, then she cheers on Dawkins, and now she castigates a particularly flaky atheist who has written a column in the Guardian praising religion.

He hawks that old canard that "no other atheist has done more for the cause of religion than Richard Dawkins", which is just silly. Dawkins has done a marvelous job of making the religious intensely uncomfortable and angry; the only people who thinks that helps the religious are those who think the proper attitude for us atheists is to keep quiet except to occasionally offer paeans of propitiation to the godly. I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. We need more outspoken atheists to stand up, point to these clowns, and call them idiots: I mean, how can anyone criticize Richard Dawkins when Pat Robertson is taken seriously? We could use a few million clones of Dawkins here in the US, right now.

This fellow Dylan Evans does a fine job of sucking up to religion, though.

But I do think there is one respect in which religion is more truthful than science - in its depiction of the longing for transcendent meaning that lies in man's heart. No scientific theory has ever done justice to this longing, and in this respect religions paint more faithful pictures of the human mind.

Bullshit.

This is a product of selective memory. Let's ignore all the hateful, evil, wretched bits of religion (the aforementioned Pat Robertson is a symbol of transcendant meaning? How about Rev. Phelps? The Crusades?), and let's pretend that science is a collection of soulless drones who have no appreciation of beauty…and let's just forget that Evans has just mentioned Dawkins, but apparently has never read him, since the search for meaning has been discussed quite a bit by that guy.

Let's also forget that religion is a collection of dogmatic lies, old superstitions, and muddled legends, while science is a search for truth about the natural world. Dishonest representations of the human mind as the product of a divine father-figure in the sky, destined for immortality or damnation, are not more faithful pictures.

Our aspirations and our art and our morality are products of our humanity, not our religion. Religion has done a fine job of confusing humanity with superstitious dogma, however, to the point where even some atheists think we wouldn't have transcendant meaning without that old grab-bag of lies.

Atheists who attack religions for painting a false picture of the world are as unsophisticated and immature as religious believers, who mistake the picture for reality. The only mature attitude to religion is to see it for what it is - a kind of art, which only a child could mistake for reality, and which only a child would reject for being false.

Grrrr. This is unreal. Evans has this idea that religion is a kind of symbolic art, and that atheists are criticizing it as a bad painting, while all the good religious people are sharing his view of it as an elaborate metaphor for life. That is false. Atheists can appreciate the religious music of Bach, the quality of some of the books of the Bible—I even have a favorite book—and that the concentration of wealth in the religious hierarchy has supported a lot of great art and literature and thought. Most atheists are not interested in taking a flamethrower to the next choir singing Handel's Messiah. Likewise, it is ludicrous to imply that religious people are largely sensible of the metaphorical nature of religion and share his view of it. Face it: most religious people in the western world believe that god is real. Heaven and hell are real. Jesus is god. Etc., etc., etc. They do mistake the art of religion for reality, and as he condescendingly puts it, must be "only a child".


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Comments:
#23824: Covington — 05/03  at  01:23 PM
Mostly, the media care nothing at all for creationism, with barely more tolerance for IDists. But mention the "magic" of quantum mechanics, the Big Bang, or our supposed privileged place in the universe, and they're accommodating as hell.

You wouldn't believe the number of people I work with who think they learned cutting edge physics from seeing that Ramtha "What the Bleep" movie. Every book I have by Timothy Ferris and Brian Greene is on loan to call their bluffs about being interested in real cosmology. I'll be stunned if one of them gets read.



#23829: — 05/03  at  01:54 PM
I like hard sci-fi, but could never stomach the fantasy genre.
Wouldn't the bible be more of a B-rated, low-budget and cheezy Horror film?

Accordingly, it's sub-genre would probably be either "Weird Fiction" or "Jesus Mythos."

Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

-Jerry Garcia



's avatar #23830: ajmilne — 05/03  at  01:55 PM
...My kind of atheism sees religions as presenting potent metaphors and images to represent human aspirations for transcendence...

Bully for him. My kind sees it as a load of rot. Or, more descriptively, as a lotta tired and conflicted barely adhering adherents trying very hard not to notice how little sense it makes, how badly it's bruising their tangled and muddled minds even to find useful meaning enough in those alleged 'potent metaphors' even to justify their continuing to meditate upon the sources they're supposed to come from... Some of whom will go far enough even to build an odd and fascinatingly bankrupt academic 'discipline' around that approach and wonder uneasily their entire lives to what degree the effort is wasted... All keeping extremely edgy company with a shrill handful of mediaeval nutters who'd ban the use of the microscope if it gave them back the stern, simple and endlessly nasty bearded stone age patriarch once used principally as an excuse by king and clergy to keep the rabble in line... And finally as an insidious set of mental viruses that corrupt the very ability to employ a human intelligence to its (very palpable) limits.

There is pretty literature and lovely music and elegantly rendered art all associated with religious beliefs of various flavours. But looking at it, I see lovely and intelligent and creative human beings building beauty. That they saw the world through a lense I've discarded, while they built what they did, that I get. It does not follow from this that I have any love for that lense. Whether it once had utility, I can't know. I only know I wouldn't wish it on anyone now--that with the vistas now before us, it's more blinker than lense.

And I know how it twists a brain and corrodes self-respect to claim you believe what you do not solely to conform to the herd. And so I salute Dawkins also for the example he sets there--for saying loudly and proudly what so many of us are thinking: that it is all rot. Said it before, I'll say it again: Dawkins' expression of a bluntly critical view on the subject is a breath of fresh air and a thing of beauty for that very utterly unapologetic bluntness. To bleat that he's somehow a liability to atheism or the Enlightenment for speaking in such harsh an apparently easily caricatured tones, to worry about strategy, or about offending anyone, or to go vastly off the topic and claim that he has, somehow, no appreciation for the alleged cultural contribution of religion is to miss the very vital point: the man is saying with delightful clarity that the cosmology is rot, and the epistemology's no better. Both of which are quite true, and both of which urgently need saying, and saying clearly.



#23844: — 05/03  at  03:17 PM
PZ wrote: Evans has this idea that religion is a kind of symbolic art, and that atheists are criticizing it as a bad painting, while all the good religious people are sharing his view of it as an elaborate metaphor for life.

Clearly this is not so. Evans had written: as unsophisticated and immature as religious believers, who mistake the picture for reality.

Evans knows full well that aestheticism has not taken over for most religious folk. He knows that they're mistaken, but he considers aestheticism of mythology and religion to be the proper response of the secularists. Indeed, it appears to be not uncommon, as there was a bit of "my favorite book of the Bible" discussion here for a while. (My favorite is probably Genesis, in fact, because I like mythology, and I especially like discovering the pagan mythologies behind the Bible stories. But read Gilgamesh for the better honestly psychological mythology, for the Bible's version represses most of the fun stuff).

Anyhow, that's sort of the Hegelian/Marxist sense of religion, that it evolves from literalism and fundamentalism into aestheticism and a deeper understanding of the psyche. What Hegel and Marx forgot is that not everyone progresses down the "evolutionary line", and that their own versions of reality really were not accurate. We didn't choose, then, to become "Darwinists", but might have preferred many other types of evolution. However we have learned how to think about the evidence in reliable ways, and we prefer good hard analytical thinking in science to the aesthetically pleasing Romantic notions (no, Hegel really isn't aesthetically pleasing, but Schelling often is) that appeared prior to Darwin.

Unfortunately, neither the aesthetic posture nor the earlier honest religious stances (I'm not sure how honest I'd really characterize any religion today, though many religious people are honest enough) are the least bit satisfied by ID, which is nothing but an analogy taken from industrialism. Not only are the IDists mistaken about intellectualism in general, and science and biology in particular, they're also rude cludges with no comprehension of the exquisite beauty that arises out of order and chaos interacting in the "natural realm". Surely we could at least use the hideousness of their designed monsters against them, along with their stupidity.



#23863: — 05/03  at  05:46 PM
From The Guardian article:
I think the best way to think about religion is to see it like the painting in this parable. In other words, religions are beautiful things, but their beauty can only be truly appreciated when they are seen as human creations - as works of art.


Funny, Dawkins says the same thing. Last December on <a href="http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript349_full.html">Now with Bill Moyers</a> Dawkins said:

MOYERS: Is this why there's no place in your world view for the supernatural, for religious tradition and authority?

DAWKINS: No, that's right. There is a place for religious literature, and religious art, and religious music.

MOYERS: Why?

DAWKINS: Because it's so beautiful. I mean, the B minor mass, or the Sistine Chapel, or the book of Ecclesiastes are beautiful works of art.

MOYERS: So beauty is very important as a result of faith.

DAWKINS: Beauty arises out of human inspiration. Humans take their inspiration from where it's going. And in many cases, it has, indeed, come from religion. I'm not so sure it really comes from faith as, in many cases, it probably comes from the money that the church was able to command in order to commission these works.



#23912: — 05/04  at  09:33 AM
The folks over at Evangelical Outpost are busy mangling Dawkins too:
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/001305.html



#23916: — 05/04  at  10:09 AM
I like this thuddingly ignorant complaint:

Natural selection can never by the ultimate explanation for anything. It can only be a proximate explanation.

Every honest scientist says exactly the same thing. Only the pseudoscientists think that ultimate explanations are possible.

As far as the "circularity" nonsense on Evangelical Outpost goes, we (philosophers) know very well that science is in the larger sense circular, in the sense that methods and assumptions must be kept internally consistent. And that's actually a major point against ID, for it wishes to be internally inconsistent, so that BS that would never be allowed in physics or the courtroom ("then the witch hexed me, your Honor") must be allowed in biology, according to the IDiots.

But that's a circularity that insists on the openness to evidence, and not the inconsistency of ID that prevents dealing with the evidence that we see in a consistent manner. Science has never wished for a lack of consistency, such as the adoption of irrational exceptions to the "rules of evidence", but has devised consistent rules for openness to varieties of evidence and interpretation. IDists wish to break the "circularity of science" because consistent regard for the chain of observable causation (where this is appropriate) is incompatible with their religious prejudices.

(Btw, Spaceman, Dawkins' appreciation of religious art is far from the aestheticization that treats ancient myths and dead religions (dead to us, at least) as artistic endeavors and as little or nothing else)



#23917: Dylan Evans — 05/04  at  10:09 AM
For those who are interested, Lewis Wolpert will be debating with me about the article on the Today programme on BBC Radio 4 tomorrow morning, at 8.20 or 8.40 UK time, in case you're anywhere near a radio or the internet then.



#23921: mattH — 05/04  at  10:56 AM
Atheists can appreciate the religious music of Bach

Don't forget A Love Supreme by Coltrane.



#23932: — 05/04  at  02:09 PM
There are a lot of interesting words here, but I think one from the center of PZs post gets to the heart of the matter.


"
But I do think there is one respect in which religion is more truthful than science - in its depiction of the longing for transcendent meaning that lies in man's heart. No scientific theory has ever done justice to this longing, and in this respect religions paint more faithful pictures of the human mind.


Bullshit."



#23936: — 05/04  at  02:50 PM
Regarding religion as being more truthful than science... how can that opening statement even make sense? It really can't be "more truthful" now can it?

What I think the author might be trying to get at, in a fumbling way, is that religion fills some sort of void -- longing for meaning I guess -- that nothing else can fill as well. I call bullshit on this too. It's just because we've accepted on specious authority that this is the case. Theists keep insisting on it, the sheep bleat it back, and that's all there is to it.



#23971: judgeMC — 05/04  at  09:53 PM
My favorite book is Genesis because of all the begating that is being done.sometime around the age of 9 my science teacher was telling me the earth was billions of years old and my preacher was telling me that it was 6000 years old. One night I sat down with my bible and worked out how old each person lived, when who begat who, and somehow realized the numbers did not add up to 6000 years. I also noticed these people lived unusually long lives and that all of the begating was being done by men. That was the begining of the end of religions influence over my life.



Trackback: Defending Religion as a Kind of Art Tracked on: Agnosticism/Atheism (207.241.148.39) at 2005 05 14 15:56:49
Some argue that religion is a kind of art and, therefore, must be judged as such. Religion is an interpretation of life, like a painting, and not designed to be a literal representation. Religion helps us appreciate non-empirical aspects of...



#25063: — 05/15  at  09:41 PM
Googled here after reading the Evans article. Not a habitue of blogs of any type. Must admit to the label of "agnostic" rather than "athiest": can't understand how athiests can be sure that some sort of spirituality doesn't exist in some form, albeit far removed from the rather primative and juvenile forms most religious beliefs take. So why not concede that perhaps the widespread existence of religious / spiritual beliefs isn't some sort of immature linkage into some reality that humans at the present stage of evolution can't really fathom, i.e., some form of metaphor. Not to forgive the "sins" of the dogmatists, but just to have some empathy for the multitudes of our friends and families whose "quiet beliefs" give them some comforts for life's problems, as irrational as that may be. i.e., fight the Falwells but don't be too harsh with Mum's psyche when Aunt Jenny dies.



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