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Wednesday, December 21, 2005

Back to reality; the morning after the Kitzmiller decision

After the giddiness of yesterday's victory in Dover, now we have to stop and think about the real problems. Winning in the courts does block idiocy from rising to new levels and protects a fragile public school system, but it does not address the source of the silly creationism debate: the same leaders and the same vast crowd of supporters are still out there, seething and scheming to find some new way to make their goofy doctrine the law of the land. They aren't going to go away because a judge pointed out all the obvious flaws in their ideas—scientists have been saying these very same things over and over for years.

An article in Salon takes a glum look at the decision. It's a strange piece of work; it does point out the plain facts of the Discovery Institute's poorly concealed religious and conservative agenda, but it lets their dishonesty slide by. It also lets scientists clearly state their opinions, and then points out that scientists often don't make their points well. We do have some problems to overcome.

The creationists lie.

They lie like snakes. We can see that already in the Discovery Institute's responses to the decision.

West bristles at the idea that I.D.'s success is due to good P.R. "Darwinists like Forrest don't seem to understand that by caricaturing I.D. they ultimately undercut their own efforts," he says. "When students or scholars who have been exposed to Forrest's straw-man version of I.D. actually read science journal articles or academic books by I.D. scholars, they suddenly discover for themselves that the evidence and arguments for I.D. are a lot more impressive and sophisticated than they've been led to believe. And once they start to engage the real issues raised by the scientific evidence, the spin and scare tactics pushed by Darwinian fundamentalists like Forrest don't cut it."

You know this is going to get repeated over and over, with much fury and lots of spittle, yet it is false from the very first word. The trial was not about a caricature of ID; some of the Discovery Institute's favorite pseudoscientists were on the stand, and spent days freely discussing the fine points of their ideas. It's not true that their books are sophisticated or impressive; they appeal to people predisposed by their religious indoctrination to accept excuses for a supreme being, but others see their science as shallow and often wrong.

This was a case where both sides got up and had to present their evidence in detail, no polemics and no emotional appeals, and it's clear where that lands you: on the side of evolution.

Expect the campaign of lies to escalate. This is often hard for scientists to deal with, because we generally expect that our opponents and critics are operating in good faith. Intelligent Design creationists are not.

The media are complicit.

The Salon article isn't bad, even if it is confronting us with some uncomfortable realities about how evolution is perceived outside academia. But it also commits a common journalistic sin. In response to West's mad frothing that I quoted above, here's the next sentence from the journalist:

Whether I.D.'s scientific core is "impressive and sophisticated," as West says, is debatable.

Aaaaaaargh! No, it is not "debatable" in the sense of being open to reasonable disagreement. West lied. Read Judge Jones' decision, and it's clear that he is addressing directly and appropriately the specific claims of major figures with the ID movement, not a caricature. We can't expect the public to read books by Miller or Forrest and Gross or Scott, or even that 139 page decision; it sure would be useful if we could trust journalists to understand and digest that stuff, though, and if it were part of their obligation to use that knowledge to point out when the creationists are not being honest.

Science is often dry.

One part of the article made me very uncomfortable, not because the journalist was failing to do his job, but because he did it very well and illustrated a genuine problem on our side (would that he had been as effective at bringing out the root problem, the phoniness, of the other side…). It's also a criticism of one of the good guys of the NCSE and the Panda's Thumb, Wesley Elsberry.

The reporter sat in on a lecture series at Chabot College, in which an evolutionist (Wesley Elsberry), a young earth creationist (Ken Malloy), and an ID proponent (Phillip Johnson) gave lectures.

Elsberry launched the series to a standing-room-only crowd, with a detailed review of the history of evolutionary theory from pre-Darwin days until now. It was thorough and fair and totally lacking in hype or flair. As one who has long studied evolution and natural history, I managed to follow along. But judging by the drooping heads and the dozen or so empty seats when the lights came up, I'm not sure how many of the Chabot students did.

At one point, as Elsberry was zipping through his talk about the synthesis of species, the young woman next to me muttered "Jesus" in exasperation before abandoning her frantic effort to take notes. For the rest of the talk, she just sat there, eyes half shut, letting the names, facts and figures wash over her like a foreign language.

Elsberry's commitment to detail and lack of rhetorical flourish sent Sperling into a bit of a panic. "Dr. Elsberry is a wonderful and meticulous scientist, but I don't think he really could see how little of what he was saying his audience even understood," she said after his lecture. "And now, to be brutally honest, I'm worried that I may be undermining my own science teaching." In other words, she was afraid the next speakers, the anti-evolutionists, might win the day.

It's true: we aren't trained to be showmen. We are very good at talking to other scientists—I'm sure Wesley's talk would have been a pleasure for me to listen to, and I would have learned much and been appreciative of the substance—but most of it would have whooshed over the heads of a lay audience. I wrestle with this in my public talks, too. There's always this stuff that I am very excited about and that I know my peers think is really nifty and that gets right down to the heart of the joy and wonder of biology, but it's so far from the perspective of the audience that it is well nigh impossible to communicate. And I know that when I try, I usually fail.

Another problem is that we're used to giving lectures that people are required to attend in order to absorb the raw information they need to do well on a test. I don't think my students show up for the visceral joy of hearing me talk.

The two creationists in the series, on the other hand, are simple and clear (and the young earth creationist has the advantage of being entertainingly insane). They don't have any complex data to explain, so they aren't tempted to try, and they put everything in terms everyone can follow. An absence of evidence can be an advantage in a talk, because then everything rests on well-honed rhetoric; the scientist's reliance on actual information means we often skimp on the presentation.

I've heard Johnson speak, and he's smooth and confident, and slyly appeals to his audience's prejudices. Of course, he also lies like a  censored . It simplifies lecture preparation if you can simply make up glib lies to fill in the holes, another strategy to which scientists will not resort.

This is another hard problem, and I can't pretend to be a great speaker myself. I do think that what we need, though, is to be able to give talks with fire: a passion for the subject and well-warranted anger at the distortions of the creationists. We need to be able to both communicate the meaty information (the real strength of science) and the concrete meanings of that often abstract data. This is hard work. It's also work that is rarely effective in a one hour talk, and takes a generation and a multitude to push the message across. We're behind the creationists on that, and we need to get working on it.


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Comments:
#54601: — 12/21  at  08:55 AM
Did you see this piece by David Klinghoffer in the National Review? He mentions you:

There is University of Minnesota biologist P. Z. Myers, a prominent combatant in the Darwin wars being fought in an archipelago of websites. He links his own site (recently plugged in the prestigious journal Nature) to a "humorous" web film depicting Jesus' flagellation and crucifixion, a speeded-up version of Mel Gibson's Passion, to the accompaniment of the Benny Hill theme music "Yakety Sax," complete with cartoonish sound effects. "Never let it be said that I lack a sense of reverence or an appreciation of Christian mythology," commented this teacher at a state university. In another blog posting, Myers daydreamed about having a time machine that would allow him to go back and eliminate the Biblical patriarch Abraham. Some might argue for using the machine to assassinate other notorious figures of history, but not Myers: "I wouldn't do anything as trivial as using it to take out Hitler."



#54603: — 12/21  at  09:08 AM
Thanks to Dr. Myers for supplying some of the most interesting and informative reading on the web.

I am visiting relatives in Cincinnati and happened to catch one of the local news broadcasts last night as they talked about the Dover case. Their headline: "ATTACK ON GOD?" Unbelievable. They stated briefly the basic fact that ID lost, and then threw in a couple of quotes from some ID'ers which made the usual nonsense claims about it being a malicious ACLU conspiracy. End of story, now for the weather. You are absolutely correct that explaining the realities of science to an audience that is largely satisfied with this depth of reporting is a very daunting task.



#54604: — 12/21  at  09:11 AM
Heh, the weirdos over at World Magazine have found you:

Well, the Darwinists won this round, and let's enjoy the three minutes of enjoyment they're having: One writes, "I'm sitting here reading the decision, chortling to myself, when I really do have work to do. But it's so darned good!" More rounds are coming. Does pride go before a fall?
Posted by Olasky at December 21, 2005 08:56 AM



#54606: — 12/21  at  09:11 AM
The creationists lie. They lie like snakes.


Let's be fair, here. Snakes are fundamentally honest creatures, with a bad rep from religion.



#54608: — 12/21  at  09:22 AM
There is no excuse in failing to convey as interesting and as exciting a concept as evolution to an audience. Folks are primed for it since childhood. The key is conveying the enthusiasm and passion one has to others, then one can focus on the details.

The challenge with public talks is that one should not lecture in the manner that one teaches. This was an issue we were wrangling with since I was a student assistent in the 1980's, was that many professor's models for good lecturers, were in fact poor conveyors of information.

The recommendation then was to follow the principles of rhetoric--primarily repetitition of the main ideas; make the presentation as informal as possible (sit in a chair, and talk as if telling a bedtime story was one of my favorite lecturer's methods); speak to the audience, not the wall; plenty of pictures; and loads of handouts and outlines. A go around with toastmasters is not such a bad idea.

Mike



#54609: — 12/21  at  09:32 AM
Good take on this. I was raised a YEC but left it behind when I began researching the issue and found that evolution-deniers lie. I couldn't find a single evolution-denier who argued in good faith.

The problem is that I am fascinated by science and was able to deeply probe and research this issue, while the average person will spend probably no more than 5 min per year thinking about evolution. This average person, no matter how wrong, is very likely to associate evolution with strong atheism. If this person were to actually learn what evolution actually is and is not, he or she would most likely accept it and in fact accepts much of evolution already today, from natural selection to mutations to change of forms over time. Evolution has an image problem, and the key is better communication.



#54610: Jeff — 12/21  at  09:38 AM
PZ said:

This is another hard problem, and I can't pretend to be a great speaker myself. I do think that what we need, though, is to be able to give talks with fire: a passion for the subject and well-warranted anger at the distortions of the creationists.


I think this is dead on. Lecturing to students who signed up for the class in order to learn about the subject is vastly different from making a presentation to the general public. The goals and methods are completely different. What sells people in general on something is not the steak, it's the sizzle (to steal a metaphor). But science by design is all steak.

What sells people is passion for the subject. How sincerely the person making the presentation seems to believe in it. How entertained the listener is. How connected they feel to the authority presenting the material. How involved in the subject the audience gets. It's not a lecture, it's a sales presentation. The ID and YEC crowd gets this -- for them it's like going to church. There's someone up there preaching fire and brimstone and they get INTO it! Then the evolutionist gets up and it's like a lecture in a class, where the audience is expected to be passive.

It's an old issue in science education, but we need more Asimovs and Sagans, scientists who understand that just because what sells the steak is the sizzle, you're still dealing with a good cut of meat. Selling the science isn't selling out!



#54612: ekzept — 12/21  at  09:41 AM
You are absolutely correct that explaining the realities of science to an audience that is largely satisfied with this depth of reporting is a very daunting task.
that from Greg, and this
Well, the Darwinists won this round ...
from World Magazine as quoted by Cardinal Ratzass.

y'see, this is what i meant in my comment about Robertson, W, and their ilk: they see this as the Superbowl, my side versus your side, the Christian good-guys versus the Muslim bad-guys, or the Christian good-guys against those nasty, atheistic, porn-toting, boobie-lovin', secular "Darwinists". it's a game, as war is, and the ultimate goal is to win , with any device being justified for the greater goal. it's why i believe BushCo feel their are entirely justified in disregarding FISC related to domestic spying.

i suspect that's because they believe that the ultimate authority is not principle, as enshrined in a Constitution, but public opinion in the traditional, divine-spark-in-the-individual Protestant sense. principle means nothing, no matter what it is based upon. scriptural text means nothing either, be it Bible or Constitution, because it is to be reinterpreted according to the "inner divine spark", as molded, of course, by the Dobsons and Robertsons of the world. what this is is mob rule, founded upon a Christian theme. in this case, religion isn't the opiate of the masses, it is their catalyst. that's another similarity with fundy Islam.



#54613: Ocellated — 12/21  at  09:42 AM
One quick point PZ. A lot of religious folks simply won't listen if you're not one of them. (Very poor reason, I know). But if you don't believe in God, they'll feel very threated by what you have to say, and on that basis, they will gravitate towards the showmanship of those who tell them their belief in God is safe.

Maybe everyone will disagree with me... But I think one of the things that's needed is a little healing between science and faith. You may think they're nuttier than a drunk squirrel, but if scientists would say, "there are scientist who are religous", I think it would help the message. Just stress that understanding evolution doesn't have to mean forgoing faith.

I have given lessons in church, and in one hour gotten 200 people to realize that there's something to evolution. I think the reason is that the audience trusts what I'm telling them, instead of ignoring it from the start.



#54615: greensmile — 12/21  at  09:50 AM
My 10:00 oclock news managed to treat me to both media complicity and creationist semantic sleight of tongue.

After taking a minute to explain what ID was [out of fairness or fear?] without any hint that it was not really a competing scientific theory, the showed a soundbite of a spokesman for the Thomas More law ceneter: "Darwin's beliefs are now being established as the unassailable dogma in our schools..."...my wife wondered why I was shouting obscenities at the TV.

Yes, we have a long way to go.



#54618: — 12/21  at  09:55 AM

#54606: Nick — 12/21 at 11:11 AM

"The creationists lie. They lie like snakes."

Let's be fair, here. Snakes are fundamentally honest creatures, with a bad rep from religion.

True, but the comparison is one made by creationists, not an invention of PZ. They aspire to be "as clever as serpents", which they mistakenly believe to be dishonest*. Check this link, search for serpent: ‘Bring us your legal issues,’ clergy told - Conservative Christian attorneys offer free legal advice in church-culture clashes.

* A careful reading of Genesis chapters 2 and 3 will reveal that God lied to Adam, and that the talking snake told the truth to Eve.



#54619: — 12/21  at  09:56 AM
Here's a thought: since Judge Jones has ruled that it is illegal to teach IDC as science, and the Discovery Institute advocates and promotes that activity, doesn't that make them a criminal conspiracy?



#54620: ekzept — 12/21  at  09:58 AM
But if you don't believe in God, they'll feel very threated by what you have to say, and on that basis, they will gravitate towards the showmanship of those who tell them their belief in God is safe.
while i personally think any  serious belief in the existence of a demon or Satan is polytheism, many Christians believe the character real. if they were, they certainly would believe in God. they would be a consummate showman. they certainly would be likeable.

the Court's decision clearly rejected the idea that evolution is necessarily anti-religion. in fact, they found that this is an argument from ID and from the "intelligent design movement" or "IDM" as Judge Jones called it.

no, this is a failing of education, in the widest sense of the word. it is the failing of people being able to comprehend and think through an intellectual position and concept with which they don't agree. it is a failing in basic capability.

while it is the purpose of teachers to teach, noone considers it reasonable to teach anyone junior year high school subjects if they can't read, write, or do arithmetic. Feynmann repeatedly emphasized how many understandings in science, at least in physics, are unreachable unless the student has a basic comprehension of mathematics. i see this as something comparable. unfortunately, it also means folks missing the education will be duped.

this isn't as much a "Republican war on science" as much as it is a "Republican war on education" or a "Republican exploit of ignorance".

IMO, scientists cannot be saddled with the job of making up for the failed education of people from grade school. it won't work. what will  work is relying upon emotions and stories to reach people who can't understand. many scientists frown at bending scientific fact in order to tell a good tale. i don't think any other technique will reach folks.

IMO, it isn't a "healing" with "faith" that's needed, and science and ignorance can never be friends.



#54621: ekzept — 12/21  at  10:03 AM
A careful reading of Genesis chapters 2 and 3 will reveal that God lied to Adam, and that the talking snake told the truth to Eve.
yes, that's quite true. the identification of the serpent with Satan or whoever someone's favorite demon is is also a big leap. there is a later Christian text that implies a Virgin Mary crushing the head of a serpent, but it isn't identified. it's just assumed to be the same.

i think Bibles should come with historical footnotes, references, and bibliography documenting justification for assertions. alas, that's a secular and Enlightenment idea.



#54622: — 12/21  at  10:04 AM
In my profession, I call this the AOL effect.

It starts will an interesting idea and then spreads as more people are exposed to it. (In this case Genesis; speaking about a pre-scientific society.)

However, once we try to teach people to abandon what they've relied on for so long that it becomes impossible to convert.

Then when the technology advances and AOL is left in the dust. AOL begins a campaign of lies to rope the audience back in.

Every person, place or thing with power and the will to lie will do so to retain its control.

Perhaps my favorite quote (I paraphrase):
"I lie will travel the global while the truth is tying its shoes."



#54624: Phoenix Woman — 12/21  at  10:07 AM
Salon.com used to be much, much better back when Murray Waas and Mollie Dickenson worked for them as investigative reporters. But now the only writers that they have that are consistently worth reading are Joe Conason, Sid Blumenthal and Charles Taylor -- and Taylor does movie reviews. I know of second-tier bloggers that outclass Farhad Manjoo.

But that doesn't change the biggest victory of yesterday: The fact that it has now been stated, in an official judgement of law, that:

#1: ID = Creationism = Christianity, and that any attempts to show otherwise are based on lies;

#2: ID's defenders lie like rugs;

#3: ID and real science are two different things.

Here are the implications of these three things:

For #1, it means that from now on, it will be much, MUCH more difficult for the Fundies to use the rebranding strategy to achieve their goal of replacing science with religion. Their second attempt at rebranding their version of Christianity as science has been shot down, just as the creationism rebranding strategy was shot down nearly two decades ago -- and just like the creationism gambit, it was shot down in a conservative small town by a conservative judge.

This means that they will either concentrate ever harder on cherry-picking venues, or they will immediately seek to regroup and totally retool their strategy. They'll probably try the first option, as they really don't want to give up on ID just yet -- they've put over a decade into promoting it and they're not about to admit that this was time and money that was wasted. So they'll go venue-shopping, and either lose locally or at the appellate level, and the Dover decision will be the deciding factor, and THEN they'll retool. Of course, if they're smart, they start to retool right away, and work on a whole new strategy instead of one that involves globally replacing the words "intelligent design" with another new set of buzz words. Let's hope that they're not that smart.

#2 is another reason why they can't go on using their old strategies in court. If they try to go before another judge with their same old bag of tricks -- tricks that have now been forever ruled to be LIES -- all their opponents have to do is cite the Dover ruling. Boom! Down go the Fundies.

#3 is the crowning reason why they have to change their strategy. Anything that they promote that can be traced to either ID or creationism is going to get shot down. No more global-replace jobs; it's gotta be a whole new ballgame.

So really, my biggest fear is not that they try to appeal, or immediately go venue-shopping, using the same old tricks. I actually HOPE that they do just that, because it will make it harder for them to distance themselves from these scams, as they must if they want to have any hope in their goal of replacing science with religion. My biggest fear is that they lie low, junk the whole rebranding scam, and start from scratch -- only to spring something totally new on us five or ten years down the road.

We must be vigilant for that.



's avatar #54627: PZ Myers — 12/21  at  10:11 AM
Ocellated, I have said that repeatedly, that there are many Christians in science who see no conflict between their faith and their work. When I lecture on this stuff in classes, practically the first thing I say is that we are disinterested in changing anyone's religion, that we aren't expecting anyone to change their beliefs, and that all we care about is that students understand how we've come to the present understanding of biology.

It is also the case, however, that there are many of us who dislike religion and see it as a detriment to society. That's reality. Unfortunately, the way many people think we should handle the general bigotry against atheism is to ask the atheists to hide themselves and their god-hating views in a closet somewhere.

I think that is completely wrong. That's the way to let bigotry fester and grow.



Oh, and the "lie like a snake" thing has nothing to do with slander against snakes, or old bible myths. It's because snakes are very prone. Close to the ground. They lie low, don't you know.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris



#54628: — 12/21  at  10:13 AM
Oh, there are very exciting things in science, stuff that gets people excited easily -- and the destruction of the search for that sort of stuff is the unspoken uber-text of the creationists.

For example, consider the ivory-billed woodpecker. In a world where evolution works, the loss of this species is a catastrophe, because its splendor would be lost forever, and certainly nothing new or unique can evolve from an extinct line; something else may evolve to fill the niche, but the rise of new species does not require the death of old ones. In a creationist world, loss of the bird may speed the end times slightly, but is no great loss overall -- perhaps even planned by the powers that be. (I think this differs from the Christian position, but leave that alone for a moment.)

So the story of the finding of one of the birds still alive is big stuff. In a world where a Discovery Institute analog existed on the side of science, it would be out there talking about the 218 or 219 species of woodpeckers, how they have adaptations from other birds (two or three different kinds of feet! Different tongues! Different colors!) The conservation end of the science group would be talking of the importance of conserving species, offering examples of entire ecosystems sustained by odd, keystone species, and examples of where humans have been aided immensely by preservation (the story of breast cancer drugs and the Pacific yew springs to mind, that yew being available in quantity for the development of the drug only from those areas which were protected for spotted owls . . .).

Those stories are exactly the ones the fundies don't want to see, of course.

Evolution is economically important. Those stories are buried in the back of agricultural and medical journals. We need a good PR firm to put them on page one.



#54629: — 12/21  at  10:15 AM

#54621: ekzept — 12/21 at 10:03 AM
the identification of the serpent with Satan or whoever someone's favorite demon is is also a big leap.

Yes, Prometheus would be more apt.


i think Bibles should come with historical footnotes, references, and bibliography documenting justification for assertions. alas, that's a secular and Enlightenment idea.

Hmm, sounds like you're talking about The Skeptic's Annotated Bible



#54630: — 12/21  at  10:26 AM
A careful reading of Genesis chapters 2 and 3 will reveal that God lied to Adam, and that the talking snake told the truth to Eve


And people wonder why atheists consider Christianity absurd.



#54632: — 12/21  at  10:29 AM
Fergive a touch of smugness about the Dover case. Fer nigh onto 80 years, which is dang near a hunnert Yankee years, us Tennesseans have been derided about the Scopes trial. Granted, much of the derision was, and is, richly deserved. Yet, it warms the cockles of my bleedin' libruil heart to see many o' them damn Yankees fall fer that incompetent deity theory scam. And, we're talkin' them damn Yankees fell fer it even after eighty years of amazin' progress in genetix research and what not. We'unz got a classic Hollyweird movie outta the Scopes trial. However, I doubt we'unz will even git a TV movie outta Dover. Happy Hollydaze, y'all.



#54633: — 12/21  at  10:30 AM
A scientific populist is a special animal. Those who can make science inviting, digestible, interesting, to a lay audience are of a small subset of all scientists. They should be the ones out there making the case, not the Lazlo Hollyfelds of the science world (cf. "Real Genius", 1985).

(and note, sometimes those who can do this trick in writing may not be as suited for doing it in public talks; sometimes just how loudly and brightly you speak can make or break it).



#54634: — 12/21  at  10:31 AM
Thanks PZ, for clearing that up. I don't tell lies, it's just that I'm always lying down - having no appendages will do that to ya.

So, folks, when someone says that Creationists lie like snakes, what thay are really saying is that Creationists tell lies like snakes lie in the grass, that is, all the time.

Next time, drop the snakism, and just ask: How do you know when a Creationist is lying? Their lips are moving!



#54635: ekzept — 12/21  at  10:38 AM
to Phoenix Woman's list, i would add:

#4: in science classes, the supernatural or quasi-supernatural explanations are no longer permitted  "This rigorous attachment to 'natural' explanations is an essential attribute to science by definition and by convention ... from a practical
perspective, attributing unsolved problems about nature to causes and forces that lie outside the natural world is a 'science stopper'. ... once you attribute a cause to an untestable supernatural force, a proposition that cannot be disproven, there is no reason to continue seeking natural explanations as we have our answer ... ID is reliant upon forces acting outside of the natural world, forces that we cannot see, replicate, control or test, which have produced changes in this world. While we take no position on whether such forces exist, they are simply not testable by scientific means and therefore cannot qualify as part of the scientific process or as a scientific theory."

and

#5: it is false that the only way to be religious or Christian is to deny evolution  "ID is at bottom premised upon a false dichotomy, namely, that to the extent evolutionary theory is discredited, ID is confirmed ... Angie Yingling was coerced into voting for the curriculum change by Board members accusing her of being an atheist and un-Christian."



#54636: — 12/21  at  10:38 AM
This week's Science has a review of a book about the popular image of scientists, which pointed out that the incremental nature of most real-life investigations simply doesn't lend itself to big splashy productions with, y'know, bodies piling up and large objects either blowing up or banging into other large objects or otherwise scary or titillating content (the squid porn on this blog notwithstanding).

Consequently those movies don't get made much. The movies where the scientist is a whackjob bent on world domination, or some saint with lousy social skills and the ability to calculate Fourier transforms in his head fighting the whackjob bent on world domination--those get made. Which is why there are so many people whose idea of a scientist is something between Lex Luthor and Dexter from Dexter's Lab.

The point is, you wonder why anyone in their right mind, given a choice between getting their science info from some self-aggrandizing college dropout--or getting it from someone who, say, follows genetic drift or calculates greenhouse gasses for a living, would listen to the Professional Liberal Hater who hasn't taken a science class since high school.

The answer is: We've got a lousy image and consequently, lousy (or at least, lousier-than-you'd-expect) credibility. And part of protecting our kids and the general public against these ID jackasses might be shoring that up.



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