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Sunday, February 06, 2005

Carnival of the Godless #2

Carnival of the Godless

Godlessness is more popular than I expected out there in the wide, wide blogosphere. We have 23 excellent entries this week, with authors ranging in philosophy from hardcore anti-theism to deism (which, strictly speaking, isn't godlessness, but are still long term members in good standing of the freethought community, so I'm willing to stretch the boundaries that much.) There were so many and I spent so much time just reading them that I was floundering when trying to summarize them all, so I took a shortcut: I've plucked out a representative quote from each article. Go read, and go think!

Weblog Article Sample Quote
Hank Fox Deadline Pressure "It’s why most of us humans have some kind of religion. Even knowing about the billions of years in each direction from our lives, and even knowing about the vast and limitless space in all directions, some part of us has to think the whole universe is all about US. We want to be noticed. We want it all to mean something. More than that, we want it to mean something WE can understand. And we want it to go on meaning something."
No More Mr Nice Guy! Life After God "Moving beyond religion is about growing up, and living by a code of ethics which requires us to see things from the other fellow's point of view, at least to the extent that we refrain from gratuitously causing him harm because we would not wish him to suffer."
UTI Annex Just Suppose "Asserting a claim is sufficient for some people who see angels, fairies, demons, and other intangible usually invisible entities, and they have started many a religion by simple assertion and sticking to their claims."
Raving Atheist Revisionism "In the interest of truth, we’re going to give copies of that [Alabama Governor George Wallace’s inaugural address] to all the kiddies too, right? And teach them about how the Southern Baptist Convention stood side by side with Govs. Wallace and Faubus in opposing the integration of the very schools in which they sit?"
A House of God A letter to Walter E. Williams, Department of Economics George Mason University "You should try to follow the teachings of Jesus and be more tolerant, loving and forgiving. Quit trying to force your beliefs on others."
Thoughts from Kansas Belief in things not seen "To get back to the election, and 'values,' I'll just say that not being Christian doesn't mean you don't have faith. It takes spectacular amounts of faith to believe that humans are capable of making themselves more perfect, but that's the foundation of liberal democracy, and some strains of Christianity, too."
Unscrewing the Inscrutable Our doors are always open (unless you're a wino) "My point is that it strikes me that religion of any flavor, or a club of any sort, is simply an excuse to get together and be with people who think and act the way that you do. An accepted way to indulge our petty discrimination and superiority complexes. All of the mumbo-jumbo, magic tricks, and woo-woo fluff is nothing more than an elaborate rationalization so that we can be comfortable with ourselves. It is selfishness, pure and simple. But it is selfishness that dishonestly tells itself that it is really altruism."
God is for Suckers! Religious nihilism and compassionate atheism in the face of disaster "We don’t have to implicitly deny its terrible reality as part of our human realm to fit it into our world view. Terrible shit happens to innocent people; our place is to try to make sure it isn’t by our doing, and to respond in the best, most humane and compassionate way we can to its victims."
Smijer "Paul Harvey": Christians Have Rights, Too! "And the government, by the way, is secular. The founding fathers - that mix of people religious and irreligious who framed the constitution and gave us this great country - saw that both freedom and religion suffered when church and state were mixed. They wrote a constituion founded on a lot of principles, including separation of church and state."
Smijer Scalia (Does Religion Make You Dumb?) "Now, Scalia could have just as well said 'religion doesn't make you dumb, and there is nothing wrong with believing in things because of religious traditions.' Instead he effectively said— 'look, religion made me—an otherwise very smart man—dumb.'"
The Two Percent Company Believe What You Want To Believe "It is important to understand that we fully support your right to believe whatever you want to believe, regardless of the supporting facts, or lack thereof. We firmly support your right to your own personal beliefs, and we would gladly argue for you to maintain that right. That said, it is equally important to understand that we maintain the right to not believe what you believe, and to think that what you believe is silly."
Unscrewing the Inscrutable A Rational Perspective On The Origins And Shortcomings Of Neoconservative Ideology " Trickster politicians and ideological shysters using religion to feather their own nest at the expense of the sincerely faithful are nothing new to Christians."
nanovirus Dethrone the fundies to protect the environment "Because humanists have no belief in a god or supernatural force that will solve our problems for us, they know humans must take sole responsibility for sorting out environmental problems."
The Shanmonster Jesus Was Gother Than You "All I'm trying to say is, with the powers of persuasion, induction, and deduction that I've developed, I can prove to you that Jesus Christ was as goth as fuck."
yeah whatever The Zen of humanism "Sometimes a Christian might say, yes, but why be good if you do not fear punishment for doing bad? Ah, I say, good point. I must truly deserve merit because I am good for its own sake and not because I fear chastisement. I'd have thought your God will reward me double for not needing to be forced into it."
UTI Annex Religion is Totalitarian "If indeed large swaths of the world slip to religious totalitarianism, this will be worse than when communism seemed invulnerable in two ways: one, theocracy plays on people’s tradition and culture, to which communism has never really connected, and two, religious revival is in progress in several areas of the world, so there will not be a great power opposing fundamentalism the way the USA opposed communism."
Science and Politics Evolution: Worship for a Changing World "On the other hand, some churches keep watering down and hiding their religion until almost nothing remains but the bare-bones of ceremony. They are hoping to survive by evolving but do not really know what to evolve into, as they feel they are going to be irrelevant in a completely secular society."
Philosophy, et cetera Religious Experiences "So, although theists often cite 'personal experience' as evidence for their belief in God, I'm not actually convinced that such experiences (at least, of the sort discussed in this post) provide independent epistemic warrant at all. If theistic beliefs are presupposed then such experiences will no doubt reinforce them; much as a coincidental link between an event and a horoscope reading will reinforce the New-Ager's belief in astrology. But given the alternative explanations provided by science, it would be a mistake to take the apparent 'evidence' at face value. "
Respectful Insolence An unexpected discomfort "There is something about strongly held religious beliefs that I find difficult to deal with, and always have, even when I was religious. I think it has something to do with the utter certainty that they have some sort of inside track on The Truth."
Mike Snider's Formal Blog and Sonnetarium We Learn "It's colder when the heavens clear at night,
But not so cruel as it clearly seemed
In the grip of gods two thousand years ago —
For blessedly, they're gone, and now we know
That stars are suns far older than he dreamed,
Though still too young to flood the sky with light."
Becalmed The bandwagon effect, and Christianity "It seems, in fact, that one semester of religious studies has ruined Mike for mindless religion. This is about what I would expect; it's amazing the effect a little knowledge of the history of a set of religious beliefs can have."
Good God Bad God Good God, Bad God "I was fairly pleased with inventing two separate entities, and wondered if that was sufficient for me to be the founder of a new religion. But then some wise-ass blogger told me, 'It’s been done already.'"
Preposterous Universe Hallucinatory neurophysics "So, the next time you have a near-death experience, and see a tunnel stretching before you leading to a beckoning light, it's not Jesus calling you into the afterlife. It's just some characteristic jiggling of the neurons in your weakened brain. Which, to my mind, is much more interesting."

The next Carnival of the Godless will be held on 13 February, at Science and Politics, so send links to your articles to <Coturnix1 AT aol DOT com> soon.


Trackback url: http://pharyngula.org/index/trackback/1888/uzbdUZdd/

Comments:
#15385: — 02/06  at  01:06 PM
GREAT Carnival, PZ. There's so much interesting stuff here that I'm sure I won't get any real work done the rest of the afternoon. Of course, I'm going to blame you for my lack of productivity.



#15386: — 02/06  at  01:07 PM
For some reason I get an Access Forbidden error when I try to read The Raving Atheist.



#15389: coturnix — 02/06  at  02:39 PM
Wow! This is huge and wonderful!!!! Another sleepless night of great reading in front of me. And, by the way I have ALREADY started receiving submissions for the next issue. Keep 'em coming my way. What a great carnival!



#15393: coturnix — 02/06  at  03:35 PM
BTW, I had a complete template collapse last night and had to re-build the blog by hand. If you cannot see anything when you follow the link to the individual post, go to the main page and scroll down to it - you should be able to see it while I am still tinkering with the html.



#15394: — 02/06  at  03:37 PM
Why is the USA the only non-secular nation in the western world -- the only nation (despite its constitution) that is continually faced with, and in an uproar over, religious intrusion into politics and public institutions?



#15395: mattH — 02/06  at  04:28 PM
Blame it on the composition of the exiles from Europe. It wasn't freedom from religious tyranny so much as freedom to establish their own.

Excellent set of links PZ. Much appreciated.



#15397: Michael Snider — 02/06  at  05:09 PM
Fun for days! Thanks for hosting, PZ.



#15398: — 02/06  at  06:41 PM
Does one have to disbelieve in order to contribute to such a carnival of ideas?

How do you tell?



#15399: — 02/06  at  06:44 PM
"Why is the USA the only non-secular nation in the western world — the only nation (despite its constitution) that is continually faced with, and in an uproar over, religious intrusion into politics and public institutions? "

I don't know if that's true. Certainly the US isn't the only non-secular nation in the Western world. Britain has an established Church, and the Catholic Church has enormous sway in Ireland (although nothing like what it had 30 years ago). Catholicism still influences at arms length public policy in places like Italy and Poland, too. I think the differerence is that Christians in the states are more unreconstructed, to borrow a political term. In Europe, almost no Christian believes in a real live devil, for instance. In Britain, very few believe in a literal hell, as opposed to an absence of God's love or some such rubbish. I doubt many do in any other Northern European country. Biblical literalism is likewise marginal. So when religion does intrude on public policy, it's not particularly harmful - Christians in the UK don't have a problem with abortion, for instance.
On the other hand, sectarianism is institutionalised. In Britain, for instance, it is illegal for a Catholic to inherit the throne or marry the monarch. Nobody actually cares about it, but that's the law. The problem is much more dangerous in places like Northern Ireland, obviously.

Now I'm wary of moving from observation to explanation, but if I were to, I would say that America's constitutional secularism breeds extremist religion (the whole "we're under threat!" mentality), while Europe's religious constitutions/public institutions (France being a notable exception) breed religions that don't rock the boat.



Trackback: Carnival of the Godless #2 Tracked on: The Two Percent Company's Rants (67.18.141.194) at 2005 02 06 12:34:07
We hope you've finished reading the first edition of the Carnival of the Godless, because the second edition is available today at Pharyngula with twenty-three brand spanking new submissions. For this edition, PZ was kind enough to include one of...



Trackback: Knock down three atheists, win a teddy bear Tracked on: yeah whatever (72.9.234.70) at 2005 02 06 18:43:59
The Carnival of the Godless has rolled into pharyngula. It's smashing, thought-provoking stuff and yes, I'm a contributor, so I'm bound to say that, but truly, there are some excellent blogs involved



's avatar #15400: PZ Myers — 02/06  at  07:02 PM
I don't think you have to disbelieve (hey! There's a deist in there!), but you do have to say something that promotes secularism.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris



#15401: — 02/06  at  07:40 PM
Thanks a bunch, now I'm gonna be up late blogsurfing again...

;~)



#15402: — 02/06  at  08:06 PM
BEAUTIFUL!!! Thank you for showing us some light among the coming dark ages.

Now does anyone know the best way to pass these messages on to the middle of the road crowd?? I'd say lets start a revolution! ...but I'd be willing to consider more peaceful ideas. :oD



Trackback: This week's Carnival of the Godless: Tracked on: tribe.net: pharyngula.org (209.81.40.66) at 2005 02 06 20:31:17
http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/comments/carnival_of_the_godless_2 Enjoy!



#15403: Dr Zen — 02/06  at  08:41 PM
"Now does anyone know the best way to pass these messages on to the middle of the road crowd?"

Keep talking. The deranged religious right blogs. It blogs and blogs and blogs. Each blog tells the same lies and links to the same liars. So we tell the same truths. It's all you can do.

It's the same thing in our lives: we don't have to just smile and say ho hum, that's what you think and that's okay with me. It can stop being okay with us.



Trackback: The latest Carnival Tracked on: Respectful Insolence (68.197.25.84) at 2005 02 06 21:28:01
The latest edition of the Carnival of the Godless is now posted at Pharyngula. Even though I'm not really Godless or an atheist (anonymous comments on a recent post of mine suggesting otherwise notwithstanding), I still like checking it out.



#15404: Socar — 02/06  at  10:39 PM
This is great! I had a couple of entries I meant to submit myself, although I don't ordinarily mention God at all, but I forgot. Ah, well. There's always next time.



#15405: coturnix — 02/06  at  10:48 PM
You are right, Socar: "There’s always next time" - send your posts.



Trackback: New Carnival of the Godless Tracked on: Bloody fingers (72.9.234.70) at 2005 02 07 09:09:05
A new Carnival of the Godless has been posted over at Pharyngula. If you wanna waste time at work, this is a really good way to do it. This and Dinosaur comics, of course.



Trackback: carnival of the godless Tracked on: the nonist (66.220.23.235) at 2005 02 13 11:02:54
a good idea. a traveling web magazine from the "godless" point of view. each week it is hosted on a different sympathetic site. it's content is comprised of articles written and submitted by different bloggers. you can think of it as a weekly list of essays pertaining to the keyword godless aggregated for your convenience, or as, well, a carnival of the godless. from the submission guidelines: "essays must address something such as atheism, church/state separation, the evolution/creation……



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