#12212: stacy — 12/30  at  10:10 PM
I'm a bad atheist. (Actually, I'm not sure I'm an atheist at all. I doubt there's any sort of "god" and if there is something that "created" this universe, I suspect that entity has no access to us, and no interest other than a detached scientific sort, but that's another post.) I went to church last Sunday with my parents in the interests of family unity. I was sort of hoping they would inadvertently attend a church that's a den of liberalism and tolerance (they were visiting us and needless to say, I wouldn't really know), but the service was pretty standard without any political musings whatsoever. Anyway, that's not what makes me bad. That would be when I went to take communion with them. All during the service I put off thinking about it, and then I spent a few minutes debating whether it would be worth it to stand firm and say, "I'm not going to take part in this ridiculous ritual which symbolizes something I have no belief in whatsoever" when I know my parents would not have been happy. So I'm a hypocrite. I didn't say anything. I know my parents went away from it a little happier, no doubt thinking that I'm not completely "lost" and still have some of the religion of my youth. Or whatever.

Then they wanted to know why my husband didn't go to church with his parents, the Mormons. I think his exact words were "There's no way in hell I'm going to put up with that." I just said he didn't want to get dressed up and then have to deal with them popping up on our doorstep again next week. I do feel bad that it's easier for us to let them believe whatever they want to believe than to tell them the truth. I overheard my dad and his dad talking one morning before we got out of bed, and I oculd hear them talking about churchy stuff. I wouldn't have gotten up during that conversation for all the money in the world. I heard my father say that he knew after we have children our priorities would change, and that like them, we'd come to see Jesus as the most important thing in our lives. That doesn't even make sense!

OK, I've said my peace. I'm too chicken shit to say it on my blog.

#12214: — 12/30  at  10:54 PM
Stacy, Acknowledging and living with our contradictions is a sign of maturity.

#12222: Hank Fox — 12/31  at  02:21 AM
Stacy, you're not a bad atheist.

If a big kid beat up your child on the playground, it would be okay to want to slap the little bastard -- as long as you were opposed in every other way to playground violence.

There's the SPECIFIC situation, and then there's the GENERAL situation.

It's okay to keep the peace in your family by bending a little bit. You just proved that you were more thoughtful and flexible than your parents, which is no small thing.

Out in the public political/social arena -- the GENERAL situation -- is where these issues really matter. As long as you continue to speak, write and vote against the fundie takeover, you can probably forgive yourself this minor transgression.

Heh. Come to think of it, I could cite you numerous authorities who don't practice in private what they preach in public: Rush Limbaugh is a drug addict, Jim Bakker was an adulterer, and Jimmy Swaggart consorted with prostitutes.

Going to church with your parents is at least an order of magnitude different in severity. I'm sure the Sweet Baby Jesus will forgive you too.

#12226: stacy — 12/31  at  10:42 AM
Heh. Thanks for comparing me to Jim Bakker and Rush Limbaugh. I feel much better now.

Seriously, I see what you mean, and thanks. I want to be better than those kinds of people. Even though I know I'm never going to change my parents' minds about anything, in theory I should at least be able to show them that yes, you can be a person with strong morals and an upright citizen and someone who flosses and brushes everyday - and still not believe in god. Maybe all in good time.

#12311: — 01/02  at  02:29 PM
Well, it's one thing to build a Gothic cathedral in 1250, something else again to do it in 1950.

The newer ones don't fall down as often as the originals, you have to give them that.

There is also a difference between being inspired by the great artworks of the past today, and using the benighted ideas of the past to guide your life today.

I just finished Mohr's 'Plague and Fire' about how 3 courageous bacteriologists managed to eradicate a plague epidemic in Honolulu in 1900. The Catholic bishop of Honolulu objected, at the time, that the people were putting their faith in science instead of throwing themselves on the mercy of God.

As if they hadn't done that back in the 14th century, and with what results?

At some point, you have to get over religion.

Arcane's 'facts' are pretty funny. I think he's got Franklin confused with Jefferson, who was so impressed by the Maison Carree that he invented Roman Revival architecture in America. ('The first, and last, Roman Revival architect in North America,' as my architecture prof put it.)

In any event, if Arcane did mean Franklin, Franklin could hardly have been inspired to neo-Gothic by looking at Roman architecture.

Nor is it likely that Franklin, the greatest enemy of organized religion this country ever produced, either gave advice to Catholics, or that they would have accepted it if he had.

Here's a little known fact for you, Arcane.

In early 18th century Boston, the religious leaders were certain that babies were born on the day of the week they were conceived on, and since copulation was forbidden on Sundays, any woman who gave birth on Sunday was a self-demonstrated.

Franklin's mother went into labor with him on a Sunday, and since they lived within a few steps of South Church, she had to endure her labor without making a sound.

Torturing mothers is bad practice.