Pharyngula

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Wednesday, March 30, 2005

Demons in our children's minds!

A student forwarded this letter to the editor of the Pope County Tribune (sorry, small town newspaper, and they don't seem to have an online archive of letters) to me, and I asked my kids about it—they said they already knew the story of the crazy lady, and their friends at the Morris High School thought it was darned funny.

To back up a bit and explain, it's about the Senior Prom. The Prom is a very big deal out here—the day of the event, it's a bit of a shock, since all the high-schoolers are duded up and swished to the nines, and just going to the grocery store means you're going to run into guys in tuxes and top hats and girls in the most elaborate gowns. Another custom of the Prom is the lockdown: all the attendees are going to be locked in to the high school for the entire night, and party games and music and entertainment will be provided, along with chaperonage. Which is, of course, the entire point.

(As an aside, I remember my senior prom. The post-prom party was held in an out-of-the-way cow pasture at Smith Brothers' Dairy Farm, and the entertainment consisted of a keg of beer and fringing, obscuring tall, tall grass and trees. It's very easy to entertain adolescents.)

Anyway, one of the highlights of the lockdown last year was a hypnotist. It's all the kids wanted to talk about afterwards, and I guess he had an entertaining patter and it's always fun to see your peers do crazy stuff. That was at our Morris Area High School. The Minnewaska High School down the road doesn't get a hypnotist. Because of the infamous crazy lady.

She wrote a hysterical letter to the local paper in which she compared the threat of a hypnotist to drunk driving or bomb threats. She has managed to squelch the appearance of the hypnotist for some time:

When my middle daughter was a junior, she came home and informed me very excitedly that a hypnotist was going to be at the Post Prom. Know [sic] the potential dangers that a hypnotist can present, especially to vulnerable, emotional, young people in the middle of the night, I sprang into action and was able to rid our Post Prom of the hypnotist for a number of years.

What are these dangers?

In order for a hypnotist to be able to hypnotize, they have to be able to have complete control over a person's will. That in itself is bad because as God's children, we should not be giving over our wills to anyone but God alone. There also is another danger to this aspect and that is that in the process of giving over one's will to the hypnotist, one also opens oneself to any demons who may want to enter one's mind. Then when we look at the purpose for which a hypnotist is doing this at this occasion, it is merely for the sake of making that person do ridiculous things which others can laugh at.

I have more information and examples of bad things that have happened because of hypnotist action at these events and it is a negative spiritual world involvement which cannot be dealt with easily because we cannot even see all of the harm that it may be doing even for the observers and so it would be best if we would just stop exposing our precious youth to this harmful negative spiritual threat.

I don't intend to make fun of the poor deluded superstitious lady in Pope county—these people are everywhere. The scary part, though, is that the Minnewaska schools take her lunatic pleas seriously enough that they've cancelled something harmless that the kids look forward to, and she seems to think nothing of disappointing her own daughter, who found the prospect exciting.

That's the real risk of the lack of solid critical thinking skills: that the people in charge, while maybe not succumbing to the insanity to a strong degree themselves, will be willing to surrender to the shrill kooks. When this woman complains about the choice of entertainment at a high school event, they should listen respectfully; but when she starts babbling about "demons" infesting the schoolkids, they should shoo her out the door. Decisions should be made on the basis of solid, practical explanations, not this kind of deranged rationale.

I hope they didn't decide to disallow the private parties at the local cow pasture because they were afraid a chupacabra might eat them. I can think of some more realistic reasons for not wanting frisky teenagers to hang out in the weeds with beer.


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Comments:
#20472: Jason Bock — 03/30  at  12:05 PM
"I can think of some more realistic reasons for not wanting frisky teenagers to hang out in the weeds with beer."

What, that they'll end up getting into a frisky game of Uno? ;)



#20474: — 03/30  at  12:11 PM
The chupacabra doesn't really eat people, you know. It pretty much limits its activity to blood-sucking. Moreover, it actually prefers goats, cattle and the like. So a few well-placed barnyard animals around the perimeter of said local cow pasture should keep the kids safe. That's what we do down here in Texas.



#20476: — 03/30  at  12:41 PM
Jason, you've no idea of the depravity that a frisky game of Uno could lead to! That way lies disaster!



#20477: JMJanssen — 03/30  at  12:47 PM
"I don't intend to make fun of the poor deluded superstitious lady in Pope county"

By all means, you should be making fun of her.



#20479: — 03/30  at  01:14 PM
And Jack Danforth reminds us what a grownup Republican thinks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/30/opinion/30danforth.html?pagewanted=print&position=&oref=login

Or a brief snippet here if you dont have an account.

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2005/03/grownup_republi_1.html



#20499: Wayne — 03/30  at  04:15 PM
North Georgia has a similar sad wacko who runs around spoiling things for people - Debbie something-or-other. At certain times of the year she writes endless series of letters to every picayune weekly in the northern part of the state, including our own Oglethorpe Echo weekly. She deplores and warns against the extremisms of christmas, halloween, and easter, and, you guessed it - she finds the easter bunny and santa claus to be satanic. We needn't even visit her opinions about halloween.

Like Falwell, she's really too ignorant to engage in anti-evolutionary rhetoric, and fortunately lacks the political savvy that has made Jerry so dangerous.

Surely you have one in your neighborhood.



#20500: Virge — 03/30  at  04:51 PM
That's the real risk of the lack of solid critical thinking skills: that the people in charge, while maybe not succumbing to the insanity to a strong degree themselves, will be willing to surrender to the shrill kooks.

Don't fear the few shrill kooks.
Fear the few shrill kooks who engage lawyers and make use of a legal system that has a number of demon-fearing judges. The normal people who respond to kooks may be applying very solid pragmatic critical thinking. Apply game theory and look at the costs.



#20505: Editor - 201k — 03/30  at  06:03 PM
You know, it's funny--I used to worry about stuff like demons, too. Then I went to a hypnotist and I don't anymore.



#20509: — 03/30  at  06:34 PM
I actually saw a hypnotist in action once (before a taping of Everybody Loves Raymond, believe it or not). Not only did he make it very clear that, even when hypnotized, a subject will not do anything that they don't want to do, we saw it in action.

He took his most suggestible subject and told her that the person standing on the floor of the studio (exec producer Phil Rosenthal) was a guy she'd had wild sex with the night before. And she absolutely refused to do it, even in her hypnotic state.

Eventually, he had to give her a second suggestion that Rosenthal was her worst ex-boyfriend, and much entertainment was had by all when she started yelling at him about how his idea of treating her to dinner was a Happy Meal at McDonald's.

Good times, good times. But it really emphasized that the bullshit you see in the movies about being able to hypnotize someone into doing anything you want is just that -- bullshit.



#20514: jmorrison — 03/30  at  06:54 PM
of course decisions based on "solid, practical explanations" are ideal. i can't help but think this particular example speaks to a different problem though. "the spinelessness factor." why is it that everyone and their grandmother is endlessly in the act of bowing to pressure? why are the opinions of the displeased and the outraged always deemed more valid when we can safely assume, from the numbers, that those who do not complain are not at all outraged, and thus, inevitably, the majority? granted in this particular case it's a school thing. i understand. the current u.s. administration seems to have set the gold standard for shrugging off and ignoring all complaints (solid and practical). evidently the populous loves the swaggering, arrogant, cowboy type. so what's with the endless bowing to outrage everywhere? have the phrases "but out" "back off" and "go piss up a tree" been lost to us?



#20520: Dan S. — 03/30  at  07:42 PM
"I hope they didn't decide to disallow the private parties at the local cow pasture because they were afraid a chupacabra might eat them."

No, no - it's because they were afraid that Those We Don't Speak Of would eat them.
"The Village" is starting to look better and better as a political allegory. I find that deeply frightening.

If it wasn't for the content, I would use the last paragraph of the woman's letter in class tomorrow as a classic example of the horrors of run-on sentences. Iiiieeeee!

Of course Santa is satanic!! Just look at the name - saNTA . . saTAN . . .
I'm hoping that the rightwing fundamentalists actually take up that crusade, presumably destroying all shreds of credibility . . . but perhaps I should be careful what I wish for . . .



#20526: Editor - 201k — 03/30  at  08:50 PM
I used to worry about the swaggering, arrogant, cowboy types, but then I went to a hypnotist and now I don't.

Sometimes I wonder about the animal carcasses in the yard when I wake up in the morning, but I'm sure there's a logical explanation. I'll ask my hypnotist.



#20533: — 03/30  at  10:32 PM
It's interesting that people will mock the "crazy religious lady" who doesn't want her children to be around hypnotists, yet if I can remember it correctly, so many on the secular side seem to go all out to get the Ten Commandments out of government buildings, the Bible out of schools (and c'mon, who's the one being superstitious believing that a little book could hurt people, though the Bible itself does claim to be "sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart", in fact, the very word of God), and Creation theory disallowed from being taught in high schools, which would only be fair and balanced (I hope I didn't infringe on FOX's copyright laws) since there is actually great evidence for it. It seems that "tolerance" is only tolerant as long as people don't have to be tolerant toward religion--especially Christianity.



#20539: — 03/31  at  12:02 AM
Which 10 Commandments do you propose we post in courthouses? They appear at least 3 times in the bible, and they're not always the same ones. Plus, Jews, Protestants and Catholics all seem to interpret them differently. I prefer the ones at Exodus 34:10-26. No more cheeseburgers for you!

I have no issues with "creationism" being taught in schools. In the appropriate place, which is to say, a comparative religion class. But creationism has no scientific validity whatsoever, and thus has no place in science class. Neither does "intelligent design," which is neither intelligent nor has a design.

I'm perfectly tolerant of crazy people. I deal with them at work all the time. I draw the line at letting crazy people have any control over my life. If they want to sit at home and stew in their own ignorance, I care not one whit. If they try to force it upon me, I'm going to expose them as the gibbering idiots they are.



#20540: — 03/31  at  12:09 AM
Lenny, are you serious? I'm asking because "great evidence" for creationism is usually a dead giveaway that the post is satirical.

Assuming you are, hypnotists don't go around forcing people to believe as they do, whereas religious statements do. Further, the mode of hurt is different: religious statements hurt people by endorsing certain ideologies and by implying that one must believe in them, whereas hypnosis does not. Nobody is saying that teacher-sponsored prayer in schools is bad because of demons lurking behind prayer.



#20545: — 03/31  at  02:52 AM
in the process of giving over one's will to the hypnotist, one also opens oneself to any demons who may want to enter one's mind.


You know, this happens to me all the time, if you substitute a bottle of wine for the hypnotist. Over time one tends to develop affection for the demons, of course.



#20548: — 03/31  at  06:48 AM
What have you done, Jim? You know the rules: you're not supposed to reveal the existence of demons. As far as the world knows, we really are naturalists.



#20551: Editor - 201k — 03/31  at  07:31 AM
I can't wait for you and your minions to finish breaking down the wall between State and Hypnotism.

THEN we'll get them!



#20552: winna — 03/31  at  07:34 AM
Why can't you be a natural demonologist?

We just haven't worked out their life cycle and found the proper classification system for them yet?

And if you think it's tedious living near a crazy lady like the one of the letter imagine how tedious it is living with one. My mother destroyed a U2 cd I'd bought because it had a snake on the cover.



#20553: — 03/31  at  08:16 AM
Why can't you be a natural demonologist?
Good point.

It won't hurt my feelings if "spirits" turn out to exist, so long as they can be described in physical terms.

So, if demons are really just entities made of plasma (ie. one of the four states of matter), could they be considered biological?

Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

-Jerry Garcia



#20554: jmorrison — 03/31  at  08:22 AM
i am so tired of hearing catholics invoke tolerance. 3 points:

1) majorities are not tolerated, minorities are. in that catholicism is as close to a state sanctioned religion as we are likely to experience in the u.s. (barring some future theocracy) catholics need to stop with the bullshit line that they are persecuted and only want the tolerance afforded everyone else. not having total iron fisted-control over every aspect of a culture (not for lack of effort) is not the same as being persecuted. it's galling.

2) the obvious: catholics are intolerant. plain and simple. picket lines, letters to the editor, letters to the producer, bursts of moral outrage, comment trolling, lobbying, these are the 21st century catholic's bread and butter, and these are not hallmarks of tolerance. if that sounds all together too vague, then try this on for size: evangelism. the tolerant ought not have a need for evangelism, let alone a positive zeal for it. which brings me to-

3) catholics invoking tolerance is a lot like an invading army asking the people whose necks they are stepping on to be tolerant. catholics are aggressively trying to effect change in the world toward their own view. asking those who do not share the same views to be tolerant of their endless moral mortar attacks is ridiculous. people of belief systems who are happy to be left alone to practice deserve tolerance. those aggressively seeking to force their world view into every facet of our culture, of spiritual aspect or otherwise, are no longer seeking to be simply "tolerated." they are seeking power, and this in my mind places them squarely in the "group to be beaten back with a stick" category.



#20557: jmorrison — 03/31  at  08:45 AM
p.s. all instances of -catholic- above ought to be substituted with -christian-, i suppose, for accuracy.



#20558: Editor - 201k — 03/31  at  09:04 AM
jmorrison-

The problem with logic and science is that they "open the door" to people's minds, which allows demons to get in.

In that way they're a lot like hypnotism. Or the wrong religion. Or U2 records.

Once upon a time--in the movies--it was monsters like "The Blob" that opened this door, by the way. You know--the amorphous, faceless evil that could seemingly be everywhere, and would break into multiple little evil pieces if you attacked it the wrong way.

It was almost like some sort of analogy.

Nah.



#20559: — 03/31  at  09:15 AM
Organized religion elevates superstition to an entirely new level, so let's call its institutions by their proper name: superstition-based institutions.

........

The creationism vs. evolution debate also illuminates this intolerance. Christians insist that their creation myth represent the creationist side. But there are many creationist myths, many of which predated both Christianity and Judaism. If evidence is not needed, why exclude any superstitions? As Sam Harris notes in The End of Faith, "there is no more evidence to justify a belief in the literal existence of Yahweh and Satan than there was to keep Zeus perched upon his mountain throne or Poseidon churning the seas."



http://www.alternet.org/story/21641/



#20560: jmorrison — 03/31  at  09:19 AM
@ editor-201k

unnngh.... wow, what a headache... i just woke up at my desk, no idea how i got here, don't remember even waking up this morning... evidently something had control of my typing fingers while i was out though. seem to have typed a lot of crazy talk... (yawn / stretch)... why do i feel an overpowering urge to devour the souls of the innocent and gnash my teeth for eternity? must need some coffee.



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