Pharyngula

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Monday, December 20, 2004

Don't do it!

A reader sent me a link to Truth for Youth, a hip'n'happenin' site full of comic books to teach young men and women of a peri-pubertal age all about the wickedness of homosexuality and evolution and birth control. In particular, take a look at the creationist comic book, The Truth About Evolution. It's bad. It's awful.

It belongs to that genre of creationist literature exemplified by Chick's Big Daddy: brave, eloquent Christian schoolkids speak up in class to refute the evolutionist dogma of the teacher, leaving the poor sap flustered and frazzled. I suspect that the scenario appeals to creationists on several levels. It feeds their anti-intellectualism, since it shows scientists and teachers to be fools, and it pumps up their self-esteem, since it sends the message that all you have to do is read a comic book and one chapter of Genesis to be smarter than all them uppity eggheads.

I'm going to be kind and take pity on the young creationists out there, and give you a simple suggestion: don't do it. Don't think you can read these things and be prepared to confront your instructors. All you'll get out of an attempt is a lot of embarrassment. The happy little play-acting game of "stump the teacher with creationism" doesn't happen.

I've had a few students try it. They don't get far. I'm sure I look a little uncomfortable and reluctant when they bring up creationism in class, and they may suspect they've got me worried about their troubling 'facts', but that's actually not the case: I may look a little concerned, but it's because I don't like publicly humiliating my students. I usually suggest that we get together at my office hours to discuss it privately…because I know they're going to get all of their objections shot down, most brutally and thoroughly.

If I did let them hijack my lecture to waste time on creationism, though, it wouldn't go down like these comic books illustrate. For example, take a look at this one page from The Truth About Evolution, where our creationist heroes are in the middle of crushing poor Professor Johnson with their flood of 'facts':

dishonest creationist comic

You see, every panel is a lie. These poor students don't have the slightest idea what they're talking about, and every sentence shows them as, well, kinda stupid. A competent instructor would be torn between choking back laughter at their pathetic efforts, or tears at the sad state of these kids' minds. If a teacher were to let the discussion sink this far into lunacy, and if he weren't a doormat like this cartoonish dweeb, there'd be a very different result.

Start with the first panel. One odd thing these kids are doing is calling everything "Something Man": Ramapithecus Man, Australopithecus Man, etc. You can tell they're getting their terminology from the creationist literature, because no one refers to these two as "man". I'd be asking them right away for their sources, because they certainly aren't scientific. They also talk about a hypothesis being "proven", another giveaway, and while I'm carping on terminology, on a previous page they refer to evolution as "only a theory". They simply don't talk like people who have any knowledge of science at all, which shows that the author of this tract didn't even do the minimal amount of background research on his topic.

The panel talks about Ramapithecus as an orangutan. This isn't right; it most definitely was not an orangutan. It's one of several Asian Miocene apes, and is thought to be a member of the orangutan lineage. It is not any kind of evidence against evolution, since it is part of the puzzle in understanding the evolutionary history of our cousin species.

Similarly, Australopithecus is definitely not "just another ape". It is distinct from us and other apes, but is clearly near the root of our branch of the family tree. You can read more about the species and the fossils in Jim Foley's hominid FAQ; the "just another ape" nonsense is straight from Gish and the Institute for Creation Research. So, yeah, Australopithecus has been dismissed…by creationist cretins. Guess what? Doesn't count.

I will give them one thing: Piltdown was a hoax. However, it was never very enthusiastically received, and even from the beginning was a rather marginal specimen that had most paleontologists puzzled. The kids in this comic are purportedly pointing to an illustration of it in their brand new science textbook—ain't gonna happen. If Piltdown is mentioned at all in any current text, it is as a fraud.

In the second panel, our poor kids continue their unbroken streak of silly errors. They list Neanderthal man, Java man, Peking man as members of Homo erectus, which is simply false for Neanderthal (Homo sapiens neandertalensis). The others are members of H. erectus, but they certainly weren't "ordinary men"—they were members of a different species, with their own distinct morphology.

The cartoonist then puts his own misconceptions in the mouth of the teacher, having him talk about rocks being "carbon-dated at 500,000 years old". Carbon dating isn't used on rocks (it's for carbon from organic sources), and it is limited to about 50,000 years at most. No one competent would make such a claim.

The third panel parrots some very well known creationist canards. Carbon dating measures the ratio of isotopes in a source, and can be confounded by specimens that have absorbed what is called "dead carbon" from very old sources that are depleted in the 14C isotope. The seal they describe was collected from an Antarctic source with deep, old upwelling water that was low in 14C, and so dated older than it should. The snail tale is the same story, animals collected where a significant part of the dissolved CO2 was from Paleozoic limestone. The story of the old hawaiian rocks is another common creationist fable, and in this case it is from a legitimate paper discussing issues in radioactive dating, describing a problem with inclusions of old, unmelted rock in lava, called xenoliths.

I really am being gentle here, and am warning students not to think these comics reflect reality in any way. They are bad and full of lies, and you're really sad and stupid if you think you can snow a teacher with this kind of babble. Seriously, your teachers have spent years looking into this material, and you are deluding yourself if you think ten minutes with a comic book gives you a deeper understanding than they have.

The last panel should have my colleagues in the humanities feeling insulted. They blame it all on their history teacher, who seems to have thought all this baloney was just lovely. I know history professors, and they are, if anything, more hard-nosed about the proper evaluation of sources than we are in the sciences. These students have been credulous, accepting rather low quality (to put it mildly) sources as valid, without bothering to look for the easily accessible refutations of the very points they are making. Their history teacher should have given them an "F" on that report. And if he hadn't, I'd be over there at the end of class to chew him out.

I'm reluctant to tear into a student, but I have no such hesitations when dealing with someone who is supposed to be a professional. I also don't hesitate when dealing with organizations that are sinking money into teaching lies to children with slickly packaged PR. They are contemptible idiots.


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Comments:
#11578: Kevin — 12/20  at  08:13 PM
Ouch! I think I dropped a few thousand neurons there.

In fact sir, we found out there is only enough carbon-14 in th existence to prove the Earth is actually only about 10,000 years old.


This statement is not only wrong in light of what radiocarbon dating is, it's completely meaningless.



#11580: — 12/20  at  08:26 PM
This is really just Chick's old articles redrawn - even the dialogue is effectively the same.

It's Chick,updated for the 80s!



#11581: Kevin — 12/20  at  08:28 PM
They also have a comic about <a href="http://www.thetruthforyouth.com/NEW Comics/c/index.htm">abortion</a> with all the predictable playing on emotion.



's avatar #11582: Ben — 12/20  at  08:29 PM
You have exactly the right attitude. I know we all get a good chuckle out of tearing these clowns apart, but humiliating an innocent student who's been unfortunately misled is the worst thing you could possibly do, since it would probably harvest feelings of suspicion, resentment and elitism towards both the educational system and the scientific community. These are the seeds of geniune rampant anti-intellectualism.

"The great trouble is that the preachers get the children from six to seven years of age and then it is almost impossible to do anything with them." --Thomas Edison.



#11584: — 12/20  at  08:59 PM
See page 5 of the comic...suddenly natural selection is "population shift" and has nothing to do with evolution??



#11585: — 12/20  at  09:08 PM
PZ, I commend your efforts to control yourself (emotionally) while writing this post.

I find it very easy to get really worked up when dealing with this kind of nonsense, but seeing you "keep it cool" under these circumstances has reminded me what we're really trying to do here: educate.

Ben is on the money when commenting about the actions we need to take (and not take) when trying to teach our severely misinformed children (or adults) what's right and what's wrong.

We all just have to remember: We can play it cool, because we have the real evidence (and methods) on our side. The truth lies with us (or will lie with us) - not because we are intellectual or elitist, but because we are willing to acknowledge the facts.

Thanks for being our (collective) voice of reason!

That being said...

...we certainly wouldn't mind if you were to thoroughly open up a fat can of scientific whoop-ass on those ignorant sheep - ya know, on occasion.

smile

Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

-Jerry Garcia



#11586: — 12/20  at  09:38 PM
I couldn't really read it. The lettering was too small even on my fairly large desktop. About comics online though it's puzzling. They're always reproduced the same size as they are in the newspaper, which everyone agrees is way too small and is due to constraints which don't exist on the internet.



#11587: — 12/20  at  09:44 PM
I wrote a refutation of this a while ago to post to a message board where it had been linked (as a "ha ha look at the morons" comic, mind you; I just felt like rebutting it). I was very happy with it: I'd share but it's long and if you've read Talkorigins you'd know it all already.

Interesting, there was a second version of this comic at one point, but it seems they went back to the first one. I started on a refutation of it but never finished it, and it looks like I needn't have bothered since it's not there anymore anyway.



#11588: — 12/20  at  09:48 PM
Hmmm, that's odd. If you go to the main page (just http://www.thetruthforyouth.com ) and choose the Standard version of the site, you get linked to this version, whereas if you go to the Enhanced version of the site, you get linked to the second version.

Try the other one, it's a hoot too.



#11590: — 12/20  at  10:11 PM
Yeah, as a history teacher, I'm offended. Were such a report to show up in my high school history class, I'd insist the kid rewrite it, with changes for accuracy.

Heck, not even Texas textbooks are that bad . . .



#11593: paperwight — 12/20  at  10:42 PM
Heck, not even Texas textbooks are that bad …

Yet. They're not that bad yet.



#11594: RPM — 12/20  at  10:57 PM
Texas textbook = paperweight



#11595: Bryson Brown — 12/20  at  10:59 PM
The trouble with this stuff is that it works just fine for the intended audience. Any source that contradicts this nonsense is already poisoned for them, 'truth' is just a label for whatever the group believes, and 'evidence' is just a word for the surrounding babel. Trashing good science is bad enough, but it worries me more that when stuff this bad passes for good currency with people, they're ready to buy worse-- and there's always someone (Bill O'Reilly?) ready to sell it: anti-semitism, gay-bashing, the general demonization of anyone not on the bandwagon. Work 'em up enough, and who knows how far things can go? Human rights are now declared to be secondary to the 'security of the United States'-- and I thought human rights were part of what made Americans secure!



#11596: Tom — 12/20  at  11:21 PM
Yes, it is important to at least try to avoid publicly slamming students who have been misled into believing this nonsense, and you should be commended for maintaining that attitude in the face of something which, personally, drives me totally nuts.

That said, I'd pay good money to watch you take one of these smug junior creationists down a notch or two...



#11597: Hank Fox — 12/20  at  11:35 PM
There's a little weenie on one of the religion chat rooms I frequent for whom this stuff would be mother's milk. His secret joy is to gig "signtists" (and anybody who defends science) with how smart he is, and how wrong they are.

Listening to him over time, though, you begin to notice that he's tragically frozen into a state where he appears absolutely incapable of learning a single new thing. His resistance to any kind of rational input is sky-high -- NOTHING gets through to him. It's like he has some kind of weird reverse attention mechanism in his head -- he feeds off negative input.

I agree, it would be ugly to think that one had contributed to such a condition in a young person.

The really ugly thing is that, whereas people like Ben and PZ actually care about such stuff, the people who write these lying little goddy tracts have zero conscience about what they might do to kids.

Huh. And they get all twitchy about abortion.



#11598: — 12/20  at  11:37 PM
Right, I've had Fundamentalists trot out these "facts" at parties and such, but it's just like religion and Republicanism - if you rebut them, you're "starting something" - you're a bully (even though they brought up the subject!). So it's a rock and a hard place, you can either let the lies go and everyone can live in harmony or you can speak-up and everyone thinks you're an unpleasant asshole even if they know you're right.



#11600: Socar — 12/21  at  12:01 AM
It has been making me uncommonly sad, lately, watching you fight the good fight in post after post. Yours is one of my favourite sites to visit (I pop by at least once a day), and I hate to see you having to dedicate as much time to beating back the creationists as to illuminating the rest of us on the wonders of the natural world.

I used to think this was the age of reason. What's happening? Were things always this way? I seem to remember better times....



#11611: — 12/21  at  02:33 AM
I agree with the last poster: it's depressing that there seem to be so many people around nowadays trying to drag us back into a new dark age. I suppose that only makes it all the more important to bring illumination wherever one can.

Which is really just a round about way of saying thank you for another great post.



#11612: — 12/21  at  02:54 AM
Jesus christ! The Piltdown "man" was always presented as a hoax even in the simple childrens books about "cave men" that I read as a nine year old anno. 1959.
Oddly my experience was the reverse of that presented in the comic book; an open minded, well read, normally intelligent, semi logical, verbal historical/scientific
dillitante teenager of 14 and up (myself) was easily a match for any and all adult represenatives of the "true" word of a so called "god". It wasn`t hard because these people never had the slightest awareness of facts or history and always relied on that mindless loop of:
"the bible says so",
"but how do we know that the bible is the truth?",
"because the bible said so" etc. etc. etc.
the clincher was always, of course, HELL, where the loving jesus (with tears in his eyes) would be forced to consign me because I wouldn`t accept his loooove (how neurotic and needy is that for an omnipotent being?). This, because, as the all powerful being and creator, he would be powerless to do anything else.
Thankfully there are some people, like yourself, who truly believe in education and intellectual curiosity.
Personally I just wish they´d leave other people alone.



#11613: — 12/21  at  03:55 AM
Mr. Myers,

I’m sure you’re a fine biologist but, with all due respect, your condescending tone towards religious people really smacks of arrogance. As a representative of a fine university, it would benefit your cause greatly if you could be a more admirable, reasonable person who passes up the usual ad hominem attacks on people of spiritual religious faith.

More and more it appears that we have a moral free rider problem in this country. Free riders are people who benefit from actions of others, without doing anything to merit it. Liberal-socialists are free riders on the social order that they do not support.

Atheistic and agnostic liberal-socialists are moral free riders who benefit from living in a society ordered by the morality of spiritual religion, while sneering at spiritual religion and moral codes as simple-minded ignorance. At best, they do nothing to contribute to social order. Too many of them do everything in their power to discredit or to destroy the source of social order.

The Great Virtue for liberals is “tolerance,” which is nothing but the absence of any standards, a morally relativistic stance that proclaims “anything goes.” The tolerance that permits liberals to flaunt amoral conduct is, in fact, tolerance by those whom they ridicule. If these moral free riders had to leave our society, which is still, to some degree, self-regulated by spiritual religion, elsewhere in much of the world they could not be free riders without risking their physical well-being. A rude awakening would greet them among the world’s billions of Muslims or in socialist China.

It should be obvious that, if moral free-riding became the universal rule of conduct, society would shortly revert to pre-civilizational savagery. Everybody would feel free do anything that caught his fancy, to take whatever he could get away with. The strong would rob and kill the weak, or enslave them.

Liberals who now free-ride on Judeo-Christian morality might object that society has not yet fallen apart completely. Any open-minded observer, however, will acknowledge that indicators of social disintegration are scarcely comforting. Throughout most of the 20th century, but especially since 1965, we have experienced rising levels of sexual promiscuity, AIDS, divorce, single-parent children, drug and alcohol abuse, abortion, spendthrift accumulation of personal debt, corporate crime, and crimes of violence.

The initially slow, then accelerating, spread of such social malfunctions is a manifestation of what might be called cultural momentum. Until the 1960s, most people still were conscious of the social pressures that came from a public that overwhelmingly recognized God and Divinely ordained moral principles. Even the agnostics and atheists tended to conform to the moral principles of the majority.

But, as the corrosive effects of the student anarchism in the 1960s began to permeate the media, education, then politics and the judiciary, the move toward liberal-socialism’s “tolerance” began gaining momentum. Today, with liberal-socialists in majority positions of influence on young students via education and the media, even the free riders may have to start paying their dues.

When people take the free-riding, amoral relativists at their word, all restraints begin to disappear. Recently we witnessed that result in ultra-tolerant, totally secular, and amoral Holland, when Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh was assassinated and mutilated on the streets of Amsterdam, simply because a radical Islamist didn’t like what van Gogh had said.

The Dutch were shocked, asking themselves how could this have happened. The better question is how could it not have happened in a free-rider society?



#11614: — 12/21  at  04:10 AM
Creationists are moral free riders in a world where disease prevention is still desired. Creationists and ID advocates are moral free riders in a world where facts count, where truth still has value.

Myers isn't condescending to religious people. He's condescending to professional creationists. They aren't religious in the noble, good sense of the word.

The evils of promiscuity tend to be evils that result from bad information. Creationism is bad information of the same type that creates promiscuity.

Don't make the mistake of assuming creationism is on the side of good. It's not. Creationism is woven into all the bad stuff the previous poster writes about.



#11615: — 12/21  at  05:16 AM
Got this from Jim Foley's site.

http://www.freewebs.com/phineasbg/wyd01.html., an hilarious parody of Jack *hit's Big Daddy.

Pericles



's avatar #11616: Ben — 12/21  at  05:20 AM
He's right, Doc. You are a moral free-rider. I noticed it one night about 3 months ago, but I wasn't didn't want to say anything until I'd beefed up my secret dossier a bit. You too, Syd. And I have my suspicions about Jeebus...

"The great trouble is that the preachers get the children from six to seven years of age and then it is almost impossible to do anything with them." --Thomas Edison.



#11617: — 12/21  at  05:21 AM
Rats!! Tried the link my self and got 404'd.

Try http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/bigdaddy.html and scroll to bottom of page for link. See also: a hilarious parody of Big Daddy?

Regards,

Pericles



's avatar #11618: Ben — 12/21  at  05:30 AM
Posting dead links is moral free-riding. You're on the list.

"The great trouble is that the preachers get the children from six to seven years of age and then it is almost impossible to do anything with them." --Thomas Edison.



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