Pharyngula

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Friday, December 16, 2005

Good news from Minnetonka

I attended the Minnetonka school board study session last night. Rumors of the demise of good science teaching in that Minneapolis suburb have been greatly exaggerated; to the contrary, I'd count that school district as solidly in the pro-science camp. The efforts of the Intelligent Design creationists there are pathetically weak. They aren't even trying to get ID on the curriculum, but are nitpicking over wording in the local science standards, trying to reduce their rigor. This long, long meeting distilled down to creationists wanting this line deleted:

Students will understand that the great diversity of organisms is the result of more than 3.5 billion years of evolution that has filled every available niche with life forms.

There was an official study session first, in which only the board and invited individuals discussed the matter. It was clear that Eaton (the creationist) was struggling against the tide. The board seemed unsympathetic, and several of the local science teachers were there: they were impressively strong and came down solidly against any revision of the statement, on the grounds that it is good, tested science and it was their job to teach science in the classroom. I could have just left for home at that point, since it's easy to see that the kids in Minnetonka are in good hands.

I hung around for the open community discussion afterwards, though, when everyone had the opportunity to make 3-minute statements. I did say a few brief words, but since I didn't want to seem like a carpetbagger, I restricted myself to simply praising the existing standards and the rigor of the science teachers (and mentioning that I'd be very pleased to see more Minnetonka students attend UMM!). I counted 21 people who came up to speak their piece; of those, 7 were on the ID side and wanted the revision, the rest were against it.

The acting chair of the board, Judy Erdahl, made a very strong, unambiguous comment to open the discussion, saying that Intelligent Design was not and would not be on the table—the Minnetonka school district simply will not condone teaching it. The pro side was in general positive in affirming the value of good science and saying great things about the school community. Again, several schoolteachers from the area were among this group; I think any attempt to impose ID on Minnetonka from the top down is going to fail the instant it hits the bedrock of the body of science teachers there.

That a third of the speakers from the community were for ID sounds terrible, but they were a mostly unimpressive bunch who parroted creationist lines. The most common claim was that there are no transitional fossils, which is ridiculous. I heard two new and original and creative creationist arguments, though, which was a real treat. Too bad they were completely bogus.

  • One was classic pseudoscience. A fellow brought graphs: he showed a smoothly rising curve of increasing complexity or species number (he wasn't too clear in defining the axes), and said this was what Darwin predicted. Then he showed a complicated graph that showed a step function at the Cambrian boundary, and said that this is what the fossil record showed. Because the two did not fit, he said evolution must be rejected. Of course, his second graph consisted entirely of "data" that he made up, sitting at his computer; it showed a flatline of no complexity or species or whatever before the Cambrian, and he made a few strange errors, such as stating that there were 18 phyla (someone explain to me…why do all creationists state numbers so far from the standard values on a matter that is so easily looked up?).
  • One fellow gave the usual laundry list of creationist canards, and then brought up a new word: "sceathers". I marveled at it. There are no known transitions between scales and feathers, he said, and it was a strike against evolution that no one had ever been able to show an intermediate that he called a "sceather". How curious; I guess he had never noticed that a chicken foot is covered with scales, and its leg with feathers. I suspect reality is irrelevant though, and because a feather is an innovative modification of an epidermal scale, he would reject anything with a tubular germ as fully non-scale, fully feather. There is also a very thorough scientific literature on the evolution of feathers:

    Brush AH. 1993. The origin of feathers. In: Farner DS, King JS, Parkes KC, editors. Avian biology. London: Academic Press. p 121-162.

    Brush AH. 1996. On the origin of feathers. J Evol Biol 9:131-142.

    Brush AH. 2000. Evolving a protofeather and feather diversity. Am Zoolog 40:631-639.

    Brush AH. 2001. The beginings of feathers. In: Gauthier J, Gall L, editors. New perspectives on the origin and early evolution of birds. New Haven: Yale University Press. p 171-179.

    Prum RO. 1999. Development and evolutionary origin of feathers. J Exp Zool (Mol Dev Evol) 285:291-306.

    Prum RO, Brush AH. 2002. The evolutionary origin and diversification of feathers. Q Rev Biol 77:261-295.

    Prum RO, Dyck J. 2003. A hierarchical model of plumage: morphology, development, and evolution. J Exp Zool (Mol Dev Evol) 298B:73-90.

    Prum RO, Williamson S. 2001. A theory of the growth and evolution of feather shape. J Exp Zool (Mol Dev Evol) 291:30-57.

    (I just happened to have all that handy—I've got a pile of papers filed away on my computer, and might someday write something here about feather evolution.)

There was one person who favored the ID-backed changes for a reason I could appreciate. She pointed out that the discussion the community was having on the issue was very informative, and she thought that this kind of thing would also be of value to the kids. Why not have the debate in the classroom? It is true that working through errors can be informative, but the point of standards is to specify what knowledge is important for kids to acquire, not how they learn about it. I suspect that hearing a mathematician explain details of number theory and why 2 plus 2 is not equal to 5 could be challenging and enlightening, but what we want from our school system is that students understand that 2 plus 2 does equal 4; watering down our expectations of our math classes to the point where we tell teachers that kids should graduate with the knowledge that 2 plus 2 might equal 4 is not productive.

I do agree that there should be more public discussion of the evolution-creation wars. The creationists at this meeting seemed to have gotten all their information about evolution from Jonathan Wells and Ken Ham, and haven't heard a single rebuttal.


The results are reported in the Star Tribune.


Trackback url: http://pharyngula.org/index/trackback/3570/mEaYsL7G/

Comments:
's avatar #53871: DouglasG — 12/16  at  09:08 AM
I have nieces and nephews in the Minnetonka school district. I'm glad to learn that they are in good hands!

Douglas E. Gogerty
-----
“No, I’m from Iowa. I just work in outer space.”
-James T. Kirk



#53872: — 12/16  at  09:25 AM
I guess this means I can un-cancel my dream of moving to Minnesota.



#53873: coturnix — 12/16  at  09:30 AM
I love it when creationists show graphs. Just goes to show how authoritative science is, when even they have to pretend they are using it.



#53874: — 12/16  at  09:32 AM
As a birthright Minnesotan, I am pleased that the creationists got defeated. And it's happened before: Their education commissioner got booted, for one. Now evolution wins out in a very conservative suburb (I have always thought that of Minnetonka as a refuge for people who thought Edina was too liberal). Good going Minnesota.



#53876: — 12/16  at  10:12 AM
says it all.



#53877: — 12/16  at  10:16 AM
..whoops, didn't think that would show as the image itself. I didn't even put any source code around it - figured people would just copy and paste the link.. My apologies.



#53878: — 12/16  at  10:16 AM
I, for one, would love to read a pharyngula post about the evolution of feathers.



#53879: — 12/16  at  10:23 AM
Long time lurker. First post. I would like to put in a request for some write ups on the evolution of feathers and for the evolution of flight as well. My field is aerodynamics (though I minored in biology and have always had an interest in the subject) and would love to see more on this aspect of evolution.



#53881: RPM — 12/16  at  10:49 AM
News about Minnetonka that doesn't involve strippers, football players, and their subsequent interactions? How lame.



Trackback: Minnetonka Votes for Sanity Tracked on: Powerliberal (72.9.234.70) at 2005 12 16 10:37:57
Congrats also to The Road Warrior, (AKA PZ Myers) for whatever role he played in helping defeat this assault on the American educational system.



#53887: — 12/16  at  12:23 PM
PZ, tantalizingly:
I just happened to have all that handy—I've got a pile of papers filed away on my computer, and might someday write something here about feather evolution.

If you slur those initials together, then "PZ" rhymes with "tease"!



#53894: — 12/16  at  01:42 PM
I also have noticed the habit of creationists citing numbers that are weirdly far from easily referenced values.

While I think I understand a lot about their thinking, that one just baffles me.



#53901: — 12/16  at  02:45 PM
someone explain to me…why do all creationists state numbers so far from the standard values on a matter that is so easily looked up?).


No reason to mince words: They're stupid, okay?

If someone said it to them, they'd buy it--so why woudn't everyone else? It's a number and there's a sciencey-sounding word attached. Moreover, having heard it from anywhere at all--Rush Limbaugh, Discovery Institute, their mom--they would repeat it thereafter as a True Fact™. (Which may be where this particular "fact" got started.) It's literally, no hyperbole, beyond their imaginations that a normal person might be interested enough in science (or anything else) to actually know a detail like that.
* * *
About the lady who thought the discussion itself would be good for the kids: How much, how you say, meta-science should school kids have? For the ones who don't become scientists--and that's most of them--the science education they need most should enable them to recognize bullshit, even if it's decorated with a lot of charts and graphs and polysyllables. But how do you boil that down for the curriculum so it doesn't take all semester?



's avatar #53903: PZ Myers — 12/16  at  02:56 PM
Except I don't think this guy was stupid, strictly speaking. He had a physics degree, he claimed to have a number of patents, he was definitely a bit nerdy. It's just that at the time he was pontificating about the scientific method and how we have to regard the Darwinian hypothesis as rejected on the basis of the failure of its predictions to meet reality, he was doing so on the basis of data he pulled out of his ass.

As for what kids should come out of high school knowing, I wouldn't mind sacrificing some time spent in biology for a rigorous course in skepticism and critical thinking. If you want to get the culture warriors of the religious right screaming, try offering a course in spearing shibboleths in the high schools, one that honestly takes aim at the biggest shell-game of them all, religion.

But man, that would be a good foundation for our kids.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris



#53904: Rockstar — 12/16  at  02:58 PM
Yo PZ -

This was the most poignant summation of why I.D should not be taught in public schools even if it's just to point out it's wrong:

I suspect that hearing a mathematician explain details of number theory and why 2 plus 2 is not equal to 5 could be challenging and enlightening, but what we want from our school system is that students understand that 2 plus 2 does equal 4; watering down our expectations of our math classes to the point where we tell teachers that kids should graduate with the knowledge that 2 plus 2 might equal 4 is not productive.


I'm stealing that...with proper references of course.



's avatar #53918: — 12/16  at  08:04 PM
Meanwhile there are bad news from the physics arena. Old guru Susskind started it by publishing the book "The Cosmic Landscape: String Theory and the Illusion of Intelligent Design" where the really unnecessary subtitel spawned discussions as for example here.

The cosmologist Sean Carroll at Cosmic Variance has muddied the same waters.

Now Dembski and Heddle has latched on to this as described here, where phycisist Peter Woit points out the need for physicists to publicly confront Susskind on his deflation of science.

Lubos Motl, a collegue to Susskind, gives instead some answers to Dembski from his phycisist viewpoint.

I appreciate the difficulties that faces Susskind, Carroll and Motl, both in physics and in a discussion with IDiots.

Their resoning are different from what PZ and others here use. Perhaps they can use some expert biology help now that they have started walking on the slippery slope towards lowered science standards.



#53920: — 12/16  at  08:49 PM

If you want to get the culture warriors of the religious right screaming, try offering a course in spearing shibboleths in the high schools, one that honestly takes aim at the biggest shell-game of them all, religion.


Aren't ID proponents proposing this very thing, in their efforts to get schools to "teach the controversy"? I don't see ID competing well against old-fashioned, naturalistic science in public school classes; at least those run by non-Liberty University-trained teachers. On the other hand, the limits of religious knowledge will now be fit for discussion; and Christian ID may have the opportunity to replace Communist Lysenkoism in discussion of politicization of science.



#53921: Cyde Weys — 12/16  at  09:39 PM
I like that creationist's contention that evolution should somehow be able to predict large scale meteorological or astronomical events. The environment drives evolution, not the other way around. There's no way to say with certainty what species are going to look like even a thousand years down the road ... that big meteor could be right around the corner.



Trackback: From Pharyngula: Creationists don’t always stink up the place Tracked on: Florida Citizens for Science (66.15.48.88) at 2005 12 16 22:46:51
Good news from Minnetonka I attended the Minnetonka school board study session last night. Rumors of the demise of good science teaching in that Minneapolis suburb have been greatly exaggerated; to the contrary, I’d count that school district a...



#53937: Keith Douglas — 12/17  at  09:34 AM
Good show.

It occurred to me while reading the material about feathers that perhaps some of the trouble in understanding evolution is centered around the genotype-phenotype relations. In particular, that small changes in genotype can have large effects. Remember all that blather that sometimes comes up from creationists about causation? Well, if you think (erroneously) that "the effect cannot be greater than the cause", then of course you have trouble seeing how minute protein differences or whatnot can produce new tissues and so forth.

One useful story that shows how disasterously wrong that piece of obselete metaphysics was told to me by my father once. Turns out some folks he knew were trying to use an oil suspension to deliver some drugs and finding that small sizes of globules wasn't working well, so they slowly increased the size of them. Suddenly, the experimental animals dropped dead. Fine with one size smaller, dead with the next? That seems to be a rather discontinuous change. And it is.

I am sure the physiologists have figured out what went wrong - when globules got to capillary size they blocked the blood flow of the hapless rats, but not previously, so only that size and larger was immediately lethal, despite smooth change.



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