#29634: outeast — 06/24  at  03:05 AM
No pledges of allegiance or national anthems for us Brits at school (I still don't know the works to 'god Save...' or 'Rule Britannia' - except the chorus, thaty is) but I do remember making up spoof words to almost every song we ever sang in class (the challenge being to come up with the beast spoof that couldn't readily be lipread). I thought it was universal.

#29637: — 06/24  at  04:39 AM
They did try to make us sing the National Anthem in the UK sometimes. Carols and hymns too. However, I also got the impression that making up alternative words was the normal game, eg "while shepherds washed their socks by night" and other variants (sometimes dependent on whatever the current commercial product adverts were).

#29643: — 06/24  at  07:18 AM
Recite pledges in schools? We do not have a pledge here (Sweden) that I know of. Reciting it in school would be impossible I think, it would mess with our sense of individual freedom.

I am happy to say though that we got a National day a couple of years back. It was created since everyone else seems to have one.

This year it was a holiday for the first time. The holiday was transferred from a religious holiday; we finally managed to separate state and church a few years back. It is still called the Swedish church, instead of the Protestantic church of Sweden, though. Oh well, freedom is hard fought, always.

#29652: — 06/24  at  09:55 AM
In the UK we had and (I think) still have something far more sinister than talking to a flag: mandatory prayer. It was common to make up words but, personally, my young self was so creeped out by religion I'd sit there upright and would try to avoid saying anything that might be interpreted as participation by Him. (My 7 year old atheism was... confused.)

Trackback: PZ on Friday Tracked on: tongue but no door (66.199.251.74) at 2005 06 24 09:55:32
Two posts from P.Z. Myers for those of us waiting for test-runs of web-crawling scripts to complete on a Friday morning: The origins of booze describes the process through with ancestral yeasts evolved the capacity to produce alcohol. Life imitates...

#29659: — 06/24  at  10:27 AM
When I was in school in Canada, we recited the Lord's Prayer and had a bible reading. This was at least 45 years ago. We never had a pledge, and anthems were for assemblies, when we sang both O Canada and God Save the Queen. IIRC, they always played God Save the Queen at the end of movies-weird! Now you never hear it.
The thing I liked about God Save the Queen was the last line when half the audience would sing "God save the Queen" and the other half would sing "God save our Queen", and of course it would end up as pirate-mode group singing:
"God save THARRR Queen"

#29761: — 06/25  at  08:07 AM
I dunno, poke, I think all the rote religious flummery in our schools -- back in the day, I don't know what it's like these days -- gives most britons a healthy disdain for the stuff.

I mean, we have a state religion, but it's not exactly a visit-the-infidel-with-laser-guided-bombs thing. It's more of a convenient social space to have weddings and funerals, really.

#29895: — 06/26  at  12:20 PM
Since they make way more fuss than most of the population about gay weddings and other faith's cemetaries, they are not convenient but conflict makers. Which I guess is the reason to keep state and church separated.

#32871: — 07/26  at  05:10 AM
On paper you'd think the US had a much healthier attitude to religion - official separation of church and state while the UK has an established church, religious assemblies in schools etc. But I've come to the same conclusion as NelC, that at mild dose of religion in childhood innoculates you against more virulent attacks in later life.