#32415: — 07/19  at  01:15 PM
I read the book twice because my friends raved about it. I was disappointed because it struck me as some sort of geographic determinism. Geography matters, but, I suspect that there is more to the rise of civilization than that.
Also, it was an undisguised slap at Western civilization. Diamond writes that the dominance of the West is pure (geograpic) luck. While geography does play a role, I was not convinced. I just wonder why this book was so highly praised.

#32417: paperwight — 07/19  at  02:43 PM
Also, it was an undisguised slap at Western civilization. Diamond writes that the dominance of the West is pure (geograpic) luck.

As opposed to what? God smiling down on monotheism? Why should that disturb you? Do you need to feel like Western Civilization is inherently superior, as if there were some kind of libertarian model which started everyone at exactly the same point, but by means of some inborn virtue, "Western Civilization" won?

#32419: John Wilkins — 07/19  at  02:46 PM
OK, now I'm feeling guilty. Not only did I make you drive 1000m, but I left you stranded in Canada while I made NYC fine. Matt says hi...

#32422: — 07/19  at  03:27 PM
Although there may well be a niche for "high density" science content in a video format, such a contrivance wouldn't fly on broadcast television. Why is it that the scientific community looks aghast at the low level of general science education and literacy, yet many scientists look askance at media that offers digestible and entertaining science content for a general audience?

#32426: — 07/19  at  05:26 PM
I read the book and found the arguments persuasive. But it would be worthwhile to hear cogent arguments against Mr. Diamonds theses. Does anyone have links to well reasoned counter arguments by respected sources?

Thanks.

Q11

#32441: jlvegapi — 07/19  at  10:57 PM
My blogs: Science in Spanish.
jlvegapi

#32443: — 07/20  at  12:37 AM
jota ele: ¿què mierda es fecalismo? Lindos dibujitos en tu blog.

#32452: — 07/20  at  08:37 AM
It's a slap at the West only if your definition of "Western Civilisation" includes Egypt, Mesopotamia, Persia, India and China.
While the last chapter includes some (fairly shaky) speculation on the possible effects of geography on the West's ascendancy starting from the 15th C. , the bulk of his argument covers the East-West Eurasian axis and the factors that led to the development of 'civilisation' in the Old World as opposed to Africa, the Americas and Australasia.

#32458: Redshift — 07/20  at  10:08 AM
I thought the second episode was better than the first. It was still a lot thinner than I would have liked, but I didn't feel that sense of five pages of the book being repeated endlessly for an hour.

#32516: Porlock Junior — 07/21  at  01:47 AM
Slap at Western Civilization? The consensus among people who don't like the book is the exact opposite; see the Wikipedia article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns%2C_Germs%2C_and_Steel
Of course, a consensus doesn't prove that tc99mman is wrong here, any more than a dislike for anti-imperialist blather makes one (me) (or Diamond) an apologist for imperialism.

Unfortunately for Quantum11, that article will hardly satisfy the request for good critiques of the book; most of the criticisms look like pretty dumb anti-imperialist blather--slaps at Western Civilization, in fact. A reasonablly careful reading of the article will reveal that most of those criticisms are points that Diamond foresaw and rebutted in his foreword.

(You see, in a Wikipedia article you can't just remove demonstrably false statements (giving a demonstration of the falsity as you do so), because after all it's just citing the fact of what the critic said. The watchdogs will immediately revert your change and lecture you on Neutral Point of View. So you embed the facts somewhere else in the article and hope the reader figures it out.)

Hey, how do you submit after doing a Preview and revising the text? I tried, and the Preview page told me to enter the magic word, but there was no magic word on the preview page, nor any place to enter it. If this posts, I have kludged around the problem, but I'd like to know the solution.

Trackback: My psuedo-interview with Jared Diamond Tracked on: Nomadic Thoughts (67.138.240.12) at 2005 07 22 14:50:16
As I mentioned a few posts back, Washingtonpost.com hosted an online "chat" with Guns, Germs and Steel author Jared Diamond this past Wednesday and the question I submitted for the chat was answered (read the whole transcript here): Wilmington, N.C.:...