Pharyngula::I must be a sci-fi pop culture freak

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Monday, October 17, 2005

I must be a sci-fi pop culture freak

PZ Myers • 59 Comments (last page)

I've been a fan of SF since I was a little tyke (I remember when my dad let me read A Princess of Mars—he warped my brain at an early age), so how can I resist this meme at Byzantium's Shores? It's Scalzi's list of the most influential science fiction films. Put the ones you've seen in bold.

The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension!
Akira
Alien
Aliens
Alphaville
Back to the Future
Blade Runner
Brazil
Bride of Frankenstein
Brother From Another Planet
A Clockwork Orange
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Contact
The Damned
Destination Moon
The Day The Earth Stood Still
Delicatessen
Escape From New York
ET: The Extraterrestrial
Flash Gordon: Space Soldiers (serial)
The Fly (1985 version)
Forbidden Planet
Ghost in the Shell
Gojira/Godzilla
The Incredibles
Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956 version)
Jurassic Park
Mad Max 2/The Road Warrior
The Matrix
Metropolis
On the Beach
Planet of the Apes (1968 version)
Robocop
Sleeper
Solaris (1972 version)
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope
Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
The Stepford Wives
Superman
Terminator 2: Judgement Day
The Thing From Another World
Things to Come
Tron
12 Monkeys
28 Days Later
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
2001: A Space Odyssey
La Voyage Dans la Lune
War of the Worlds (1953 version)

It's easier to explain the ones I haven't seen. I've heard of Alphaville, but I've never seen a DVD of it. For some reason, I've always been interrupted when watching Contact, and have only seen snatches of it. I didn't know Delicatessen was SF, or I'd have plucked it off the shelf. I've seen a few of the Flash Gordon serials, but I don't know if I've seen the one listed. I didn't know there was a 1972 version of Solaris! I also didn't even know a movie had been made of H.G. Wells' Things to Come. As for La Voyage Dans la Lune, that's waaaay before my time. I've seen the usual excerpts from it, but not the whole thing.

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Comments:

#44295: Bob Davis — 10/17 at 06:43 PM
Alphaville made me fall asleep (in a movie theater). Nobody will tell me how it ended.

#44299: — 10/17 at 07:02 PM
Run, do not walk, to your local video store, and rent Delicatessen.

Do it.

Do it now.

#44300: — 10/17 at 07:08 PM
I wouldn't call Clockwork Orange a science fiction movie (or a science fiction book). More a film about a dystopia set in the not-too-distant future. It's no more science fiction than 1984.

#44301: — 10/17 at 07:10 PM
indeed, do see Delicatessen. also see The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover. they're neither one of them sci-fi, or anything much like it, but they're very well worth renting.

#44305: — 10/17 at 07:35 PM
What? no Repoman? no Forbin Project? For Shame.

#44306: — 10/17 at 07:36 PM
What? no Repoman? no Forbin Project? For shame.

#44307: — 10/17 at 07:48 PM
I have two (2) film degrees, so I think I'm morally obligated to do the whole list:

The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension!
Akira
Alien
Aliens
Alphaville
Back to the Future
Blade Runner
Brazil
Bride of Frankenstein
Brother From Another Planet
A Clockwork Orange
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Contact
The Damned
Destination Moon
The Day The Earth Stood Still
Delicatessen
Escape From New York
ET: The Extraterrestrial
Flash Gordon: Space Soldiers (serial) - but I did see the 1980s version!
The Fly (1985 version)
Forbidden Planet
Ghost in the Shell
Gojira/Godzilla
The Incredibles
Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956 version)
Jurassic Park
Mad Max 2/The Road Warrior
The Matrix
Metropolis
On the Beach
Planet of the Apes (1968 version)
Robocop
Sleeper
Solaris (1972 version)
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope
Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
The Stepford Wives - but it's on my NetFlix list
Superman
Terminator 2: Judgement Day
The Thing From Another World
Things to Come
Tron
12 Monkeys
28 Days Later - Again, on my NetFlix list
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
2001: A Space Odyssey
La Voyage Dans la Lune
War of the Worlds (1953 version)

In my film-geek opinion, this list isn't nearly extensive enough. Where is The Space Children? Or Creature from the Black Lagoon? Or The Day The Earth Caught Fire? Or The Quatermass Xperiment?

#44308: — 10/17 at 07:56 PM
What a weird list. It seems to me like a strange mixture of what the SF community would deem influential on SF itself, what the SF community would deem influential on the mainstream perception of SF, and what the film community would deem influential for historical reasons – along with some choices that are just odd (Contact was influential?).

Just looked at Scalzi's description of what he did:

the part of the book that's going to get most people's attention -- and raise hackles -- is The Canon, which features the 50 science fiction films I have deemed to be the most significant in the history of film. Note that "most significant" does not mean "best" or "most popular" or even "most influential." Some of the films may be all three of these, but not all of them are -- indeed, some films in The Canon aren't objectively very good, weren't blockbusters and may not have influenced other filmmakers to any significant degree. Be that as it may, I think they matter -- in one way or another, they are uniquely representative of some aspect of the science fiction film experience.

Yeah, anyone doing that is probably going to come up with a weird list.

The choice that to me sticks out the most as weird is the inclusion of the second Terminator but not the first one, which doesn't really make sense from either an 'influence on SF' or 'influence on mainstream' perspective AFAICT.

And given the inclusion of things like Buckaroo Banzai and Brother From Another Planet, where are Dark Star and Repo Man? What about Silent Running? (Or for that matter Soylent Green?) I'm not saying I would even necessarily include all these (never even seen Soylent Green), but they do strike me as things that require a defense for not including them rather than the reverse.

Re: the 1972 Solaris – this is by Russian director Andrej Tarkovskii, and so, of course, is very much worth seeing. Not a good choice unless you're up for something long, slow, and moody though.

#44309: — 10/17 at 08:01 PM
George Cauldron... By most definitions, any fiction that takes place in the future is science fiction. Brazil is hardly more science fiction-y than A Clockwork Orange, except in its more elaborate production design.

My first thought upon seeing this canon was, "Buckaroo Banzai isn't nearly as influential as it should have been. Couldn't even get a sequel made." Upon later thought, I guess being endlessly quoted is influence enough.

#44312: AndyS — 10/17 at 08:08 PM
I second Silent Running (1972 with Bruce Dern) as being more than worthing for the list, and Soylent Green as well. While we at it why not Logan's Run?

When asked about Western civilization Ghandi said, ‘I think it would be a good idea.’

#44316: Keith — 10/17 at 08:23 PM
Flash Gordon Conquers the Universe is defintiely the best of the serialized Flash Gordons (and not just for the hyperbolic title). I have a soft spot for the q980's Flash Gordon, with the Queen soundtrack though... Anyway.

I think I'm almost exactly on Par with you, PZ, except that I've also seen Akira and Contact<> all the way through. Netflix them if you get a chance but feel free to fast forward through some of the more ponderous bits (of Contact. Akira makes no sense at all, no matter at what speed you watch it).

While I haven't seen <I>Delicitessen I have seen every other film by Carro and think that City of Lost Children should really have been on that list instead of, say, Empire Strikes Back.

Trackback: Science fiction films Tracked on: ed fitzgerald's unfutz (72.9.234.70) at 2005 10 17 20:28:17
As with much else to do with people's taste, there is a clear preference on my part for movies which came out when I was a teenager or young adult, and I suspect a similar bias is at play in Scalzi's list.

#44317: — 10/17 at 08:30 PM
I saw the original 1972 version of Solaris before the George Clooney remake. It was long and moody but so much more interesting and mysterious and open to interpretation than the remake. Definately see it.

#44318: — 10/17 at 08:32 PM
I'd rather see Barbarella (1968), the greatest SF psychedelic sex comedey ever made on the list than Tron, which is booooooring.

#44321: coturnix — 10/17 at 08:37 PM
Tarkovski's Solaris is very long and feels even longer. Lots of cool sci-fi films are missing from this list (as far as I am concerned), including some of those mentioned in the comments (Soylent Green, Dark Star, Creature from the Black Lagoon). How about The Incredible Shrinking Man? Tarantula? Fantastic Voyage? Aelita? Various versions of Frankenstein? 1984 (the movie)? Journey to the Center of the Earth? 20,000 Leages Under The Sea?

Trackback: Most Significant Sci-Fi Flicks Tracked on: Kyun (64.246.54.74) at 2005 10 17 20:44:13
Evolving Thoughts and PZ Myers have tempted me to find the intersection of the most significant sci-fi flicks with the ones that have flashed through my optic nerves! Bold marks that intersection. The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th...

#44323: Narc — 10/17 at 08:47 PM
Didn't The Incredibles come out in 2004? It hasn't had time to influence anything, unless we're talking this year's crop of animated movies.

#44324: — 10/17 at 08:59 PM
City of Lost Children is greatly superior to Delicatessen and by the same director. It is one of the greatest french sci fi flicks i've seen and much more interesting than Delicatessen. Jeunet (i think that's how it is spelled) directed Alien Resurrection and Amelie, also both highly recommended. And were are Beetlejuice and Mars Attacks! -- two totally original Timothy Burton flicks? This list is completely incomplete. How about King Kong???????? They've got Godzilla!!!

#44326: — 10/17 at 09:13 PM
Jurassic Park? HAHA, I hate that movie. Here's another great movie that was left off of this pathetic list: XANADU. Any list without this movie isn't worth taking seriously.

#44327: Ronald Brak — 10/17 at 09:23 PM
Perhaps Contact was ground breaking because the lead was female and she wasn't required to emmulate male fantasy stereotypes. In other words when she was hurt she cried and waited for help to arrive instead of grabbing a laser machine gun and kicking arse.

As for Akira, if you live in Japan for a couple of years then I'm not saying the movie will make sense, but it will starts not making sense in a way that seems sensible.

#44328: windy — 10/17 at 09:35 PM
Was the original idea "SF movies you have to see before you die"? Subjectively I would much rather have included these:

Fifth Element
Dune
Silent Running
Donnie Darko
Gattaca (took itself a bit too seriously, but anyway)
Village of the Damned
Dr. Strangelove
Soylent Green
Stalker
The Abyss
Barbarella
The Fly (1958)
The Day Of The Triffids
The Terminator
Cube
Strange Days
plus either Galaxy Quest or Star Wreck 6 (http://www.starwreck.com)

...than these:

The Incredibles - Not too bad, but wouldn't put it on the list. Maybe as an example of modern animation, but it's a bit too Ayn Rand to recommend to everyone.

28 Days Later - are zombies non-SF if they are slow and vice versa? It was a good movie, but not the only zombie movie you should see before you die.

Flash Gordon: Space Soldiers (serial) - haven't seen it, and I don't think these serials find their way outside US so often. So is it really exceptional(ly campy) as a serial SF, so that even Europeans should see it before we die? Or could it be replaced by Flash Gordon of 1980 (which can be replaced by Barbarella...)

Noteworthy inclusions: Ghost in the Shell, On the Beach, Brother From Another Planet

Haven't seen THX 1138, what about that one?

#44330: Hank Fox — 10/17 at 09:43 PM
Alphabetical order or not, The Day the Earth Stood Still should be at the top of the list.

I too am surprised The Incredibles is on the list. And surprised that Silent Running, The Time Machine and The Incredible Shrinking Man are not.

And ... wasn't Tron really sort of a flop? I mean, I liked it, but it didn't do well. Maybe it was the depiction of cyberspace that cinched a place on the list. Hmm.

But what about ...

The Colossus of New York?
Donovan's Brain?
The Blob? (Steve McQueen)
Attack of the 50 Foot Woman?

Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea? (Walter Pidgeon! Barbara Eden! Peter Lorre! Frankie Avalon! AND flaming Van Allen Radiation Belts!!)

Earth Girls are Easy?
Fantastic Voyage?
Scanners?
King Kong?
20 Million Miles to Earth?
The Absent-Minded Professor? (Fred McMurray!)

The Andromeda Strain!? (Okay, it's Mr. Anti-Science Michael Chrichton, but still.)
And <evil grin> Escape to Witch Mountain?
Or how about <eviler grin> Doc Savage?

Bond movies?
Animated stuff (Fantastic Planet, f'rinstance)?

And um ... Okay, somebody help me out here: It was a movie with aliens who would suck you down underground. Some kind of gun thing that would dissolve the ground and make tunnels. Plucky kid involved? Don't know if it was any good, but that getting sucked under the ground made a HUGE impression on 6-year-oldish me at the time.

#44333: Neil — 10/17 at 09:51 PM
Delicatessen isn't really sci-fi in my book - I'm not sure of in which genre you'd put it, but it's a wonderful movie. Same team as "City of the Lost Children" if you happen to know that one.

All I recall of Alphaville involves minimal sets lit by brilliant white lighting - it's been a while but I think I enjoyed it. The 1972 Solaris is the Russian original. I wasn't keen on the remake and would like to see the original. If you're the type of person who was bored during the black hole transit scene in 2001, there's supposed to be a similar scene in Solaris involving a car drive through a city.

#44336: — 10/17 at 10:14 PM
What does "influential" mean? What did Buckaroo Banzai influence? If you want to trace influence only one movie on that list had any real influence outside the movie world: Close Encounters of the Third Kind provided the archetypal image for those Aliens From Outer Space who parked their space ships in thousands of back yards, invaded tens of thousands of suburban bedrooms, raped hundreds of housewives, implanted countless weird objects up who-knows-how-many noses; and in short fueled one of the great mass delusions of the late 20th Century. If you doubt me, check out Susan Clancy's just-published book, Abducted : how people come to believe they were kidnapped by aliens.

#44337: — 10/17 at 10:18 PM
If you're the type of person who was bored during the black hole transit scene in 2001, there's supposed to be a similar scene in Solaris involving a car drive through a city.

The Solaris driving scene is formally similar to the some of the end bits of 2001 in being a longish symbolic sequence without dialogue, but IIRC I don't think the comparison extends much beyond that. It's been a while, but I recall thinking the driving scene was in some ways a relatively weak bit in Solaris, that I found it a bit heavy handed.

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Monday, October 17, 2005

I must be a sci-fi pop culture freak

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