#51082: — 11/29  at  09:10 AM
Welcome to reality.

#51083: franky — 11/29  at  09:12 AM
"That just isn't possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it."

Wait, isn't there something that's kind of like that...I think it was called the sun?

#51084: Chris Clarke — 11/29  at  09:20 AM

UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy.

That's gotta be a prank.

#51085: Alon Levy — 11/29  at  09:27 AM
My IQ has just dropped ten points.

#51086: PZ Myers — 11/29  at  09:32 AM
That's what I thought, too, but then I kept reading...the only reasonable alternative is that the entire fundamentalist movement is driven by a whole bunch of obsessive, ironic people who have been doing it all as one long, involved joke.

When Pat Robertson finally stops foolin' around and admits it was all one extended prank, and that he's really a professor of Literary Studies and French Literature who has been doing the preacher act for years as a laugh, I'm going to have to admit that he reeeaaaally got me good.

#51087: — 11/29  at  09:34 AM
....those comments about gravity and the second law of thermodynamics actually physically hurt.

Though, I must say it's not the first time that I've heard that bogus entropy argument, and yet it still amazes me how much people can use a subject they're so wholly ignorant about to support one of their opinions.

Also, does anyone else agree with me that the whole "using science you don't know about to 'disprove' science as whole" thing has got to stop?

Though, I really hope the author publishes his quantum theory of gravity and answers the question of extra dimensions soon, because all of this time us physicists thought those were unanswered questions. Since he completely understands gravity, I can't wait to read what he's got....

#51089: Wally Whateley — 11/29  at  09:46 AM
"That just isn't possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it."

Wait, isn't there something that's kind of like that...I think it was called the sun?
This sun you mention sounds like just some sort of wild theory.

Really, a big ball of fire in the sky? What's holding it up? What keeps it from falling and burning our flat earth to a cinder? What keeps it burning? Oil? Our precious oil? Are there brown people there, hoarding our God-Given Oil? No, unless it really turns out there are brown non-Christians there who we can shoot, I believe I must rule that your "sun" theory is just too impossible to believe.

#51091: Mrs Tilton — 11/29  at  09:50 AM
I just dropped down here only to find that Chris Clarke has already posted my comment.

PZ, I know that most of these sad, sad people are perfectly serious; but the 'giant energy source' guy HAS to be a troll (a troll of Floyd Alvis Cooper-like magnificence, I must say).

Mind you, it's not an entirely unmixed blessing that these people are so badly mistaken. I for one would love to see a 300-pound spider with fish fins. From a respectful distance, of course.

#51092: — 11/29  at  09:50 AM
It can't just be me that finds it revolting that the American education system (I assume most of those posts were written by Americans) can produce people so incapable of expressing their ideas in writing. As wrong, deluded even, as some of those posts are, the fact that these poor people expect those messages to communicate their beliefs strikes me as unbelievable and as an indictment of the education system.

Trackback: Persecuting Christians? Tracked on: Cynical-C Blog (66.33.213.28) at 2005 11 29 09:38:18
This is a weird site. Several people have written to me asking about this website's name, the Christian Underground, wanting to know why I would choose such a name. I chose this name as a practical reality as well...

#51093: Bob Davis — 11/29  at  09:55 AM
I laughed so hard I spit my coffee onto the screen. Oh, the humanity. Self-satire is alive and well.

#51095: — 11/29  at  10:01 AM
The creator of the excellent Fundies say the darndest things passed away earlier this month at the precocious age of 21. See for instance this thread at IIDB. Readers here may appreciate his Organisms that Look Designed.

#51096: — 11/29  at  10:05 AM
Oh, God, I'm so much stupider now than when I started reading that. (To be fair, there's a lot of Identity Christianity in that list, but even if you take out the neo-Nazis you're still left with a net negative IQ.)

But I did learn that demons can possess dogs. And the mesolimbic pathway. And televisions. And keychains. And Christmas cards. Versatile things, those demons.

"I command the 'spirit of Christmas' to leave in Jesus' name!"

#51097: Bryson Brown — 11/29  at  10:06 AM
This is absolutely hi-larious-- until you think about the consequences: When you already know the truth, you just don't have to worry about evidence or even making sense. It saves so much mental effort!

Faith grants certainty without evidence, self-righteousness without conscience and authority without knowledge or understanding. Who can resist an offer like that?

#51098: John Emerson — 11/29  at  10:07 AM
In pop use, "theory" means "hypothesis". A lot of major misunbdertandings arise from that.

#51100: ajmilne — 11/29  at  10:12 AM
Okay, I know that with stuff like:

What strikes me as odd that is, given the current state of genetics, no one has compared simian dna to homo sapien. The differences should be obvious and radical.

in there I should be depressed or something.

But I'm laughing too hard.

Honourable mention also for the Freudian slip at http://www.fstdt.com/bottom.asp#8401 .

(holds sides)

Okay (deep breath)... okay (deep breath)... you're right... this is serious... (deep breath)... my apologies... we must airlift some textbooks into the bible belt or somethin'... and soon...

I'll get right on that. Right after I've read a few more of those posts.

#51103: — 11/29  at  10:23 AM
Okay, this is amusing:

"[Responding to someone quoting Deuteronomy 23:1-3]

whoa. what is your deal?

what are you quoting. not the bible

you obviously know nothing about the christian religion.


[After being told that yes, those verses really are in the bible.]

DID you even read what those verses said? they were twisted april."

(Deuteronomy 23, regarding ritual cleanliness being denied to eunuchs, is later explicitly contravened in Isaiah 56:4-5, the "a name better than of sons and daughters" passage. Nothing better than a religious fundamentalist who refuses to read her own scriptures.)

#51104: — 11/29  at  10:33 AM
From the "Once upon a time..." article...

You didn’t get those high-paying jobs in the media, Hollywood, or in the University.

So, now we college professors, many of us making less than entry level salespeople, are stealing all the high-paying university jobs from persecuted christians???

That one made me laugh.

I'll show you my tax return if you show me yours!!

#51105: — 11/29  at  10:34 AM

DID you even read what those verses said? they were twisted april."

I love the phrase 'twisted april'. I may use it as my name on the next new blog I start posting at.

#51109: — 11/29  at  10:45 AM
Somebody wrote:

What strikes me as odd that is, given the current state of genetics, no one
has compared simian dna to homo sapien. The differences should be
obvious and radical.

I'm still thinking this is all a prank. But just in case it's not, I'd like to point out that I do still think the way to get people to really pay attention and accept that evolution is a fact is to point them towards the sequence data. People can have weird quibbly (and wrong) things to say about other kinds of evidence, but the genomic data is so mind-bogglingly strong. For that matter, it's also easy to see just which things are strongly conserved, and which things flip around at random. A little light might go on: a random mutation in this exon thingie is likely to be a big problem, but once in a blue moon, maybe the protein will work better, and...

Fundamentalists are people who are literalists above all, so I think they would be especially convinced by the text of the genome itself. Or maybe I'm just a dreamer...

#51114: — 11/29  at  10:55 AM
"That just isn't possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Oh god I'm going to laugh myself to death over here. (wipes tear).

As for whether or not that's a troll, the indistinguishability of Salvador Cordova from Intelligent Design Theorist Timmy, proves you just can't tell.

#51115: Kristine Harley — 11/29  at  10:59 AM
I have an idea for a new TV show: The Creationist Whisperer (in which scientists lead creationists "to the light" as it were, that is, to start SEEING evolution). I guess it would have to air on public access.

#51116: Rick @ shrimp and grits — 11/29  at  10:59 AM

I think it was called the sun?

But it could be called "The Carl". If you play your cards correctly.

(Sorry, SOMEONE had to say it.)

I love the good old 2LOT argument, though. You can tell immediately that anyone who makes it has never, ever studied basic thermodynamics. Had a friend who made that argument to me while he was in the Navy. He got out and went to engineering school, and he's never made that argument again.

Wonder why ...

#51118: — 11/29  at  11:12 AM

That just isn't possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it.

I'd expect that the Flying Spaghetti Monster would be Very Warm Indeed.

#51119: — 11/29  at  11:20 AM

"That just isn't possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it."

The uh, gentleman who said this was NOT kidding. After being called on this, he started pissing up his back (as my dad used to say) and came up with this gem of pseudoscience babble to 'explain what he meant':

Sorry, my mistake guys, I didn't explain why the Sun doesn't count. Here is the info on that from ChristianAnswers.net:

Is Energy the Key?
To create any kind of upward, complex organization in a closed system requires outside energy and outside information. Evolutionists maintain that the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics does not prevent Evolution on Earth, since this planet receives outside energy from the Sun. Thus, they suggest that the Sun's energy helped create the life of our beautiful planet. However, is the simple addition of energy all that is needed to accomplish this great feat?

Compare a living plant with a dead one. Can the simple addition of energy make a completely dead plant live?

A dead plant contains the same basic structures as a living plant. It once used the Sun's energy to temporarily increase its order and grow and produce stems, leaves, roots, and flowers - all beginning from a single seed.

If there is actually a powerful Evolutionary force at work in the universe, and if the open system of Earth makes all the difference, why does the Sun's energy not make a truly dead plant become alive again (assuming a sufficient supply of water, light, and the like)?

What actually happens when a dead plant receives energy from the Sun? The internal organization in the plant decreases; it tends to decay and break apart into its simplest components. The heat of the Sun only speeds the disorganization process.

You were born perfect, now I don't mean perfect like muscly body and everything is the "normal" conditions. I mean perfect as in you haven't sinned. I doubt that anybody has come out of their mother and shouted the f word.

In response to Crimson King: Of course we use science to prove you wrong, but of course you just deny it. Jesus is the son of God so therefore can perform miracles. Raising from the dead is nothing short of a miracle. Creationists have their essential beliefs about God, and take those views and put them to use when they find scientific evidence. Those views more than always agree with the evidence.

I think it causes genuine brain damage to read this shite for more than a few minutes at a stretch...