Pharyngula

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Thursday, September 01, 2005

Mark Steyn, space-dwelling robot brain

Mark Steyn responds to a request to distance himself from the "intelligent-design rubbish bandwagon" and, well, he can't do it.

Well, I dunno whether it's right-wing rubbish, and I'm not much into the intelligent-design debate. My view on genetics and evolution was stated in my Crick obituary for The Atlantic. Some geneticist had pointed out that man (and woman, oops) is 89% identical to the pumpkin. If that's so, then clearly it's the 11% difference that's key, not the 89% similarity. Likewise, with our 98% or whatever identity with the ape. The remaining one or two per cent is so awesome in its difference as to make you wonder whether a scale of measurement that produces those percentages is really terribly useful. The fact is that this is a planet overwhelmingly dominated and shaped by one species, and our kith and kin – whether gibbons or pumpkins – basically fit in in the spaces between. That's pretty much the world the Psalmist outlined in the Old Testament thousands of years ago. By comparison, the evolutionists' insistence that we're just another "animal" seems perverse and irrational and refuted by a casual glance out the window. I am coming round to the view that hyper-rationalism is highly irrational.

That's a truly remarkable upchuck there, and it's impressive how much he got wrong.

We aren't 89% identical to a pumpkin. If you use a very loose determination of homology (so loose, that mice and people are nearly 100% identical, having the same suite of genes), we're about 20-25% homologous to plants.

I seem to have just summarized the latest assessment of genetic similarity with chimpanzees. There is only a few percent difference…but rather than something "awesome", most of it is in the immune system, recognition proteins in sperm, a few obscure regulatory proteins, that sort of thing. Our differences aren't awesome at all, but subtle.

His last ideas—that he lives in a world dominated and shaped by his species, as he can tell simply by looking out his window—are chilling. They reveal differences far greater than can be found between Homo sapiens and Cucurbita pepo.

He must not possess a gut populated by intestinal bacteria. We are at their mercy; without them, we suffer horribly for a while and die.

He must live in a world without parasites or other small creatures. I'm a home to all kinds of interesting invertebrates nesting in my eyelashes and pores and crawling on my skin.

He must not have any wooden furniture in his home, or plastic…made from the carbon left by ancient forests.

He must not eat. We human beings are heterotrophs, entirely dependent on the production of other organisms as an energy source.

It's a good thing he doesn't eat, or he'd have to excrete—without any bacteria or fungi or nematodes or flatworms, the shit would just pile up (this would explain his written output, though).

Steyn must never, ever have a cold, or the flu, or an infection.

Good ol' dirt. It's made by the action of wind and sun and ice on rock, processed by bacteria and fungi and more of those tiny creatures invisible from Mark Steyn's window. We didn't make it. They did.

And oh, my gosh…oxygen! Our entire atmosphere is the product of action by billions of years of work by bacteria and algae and plants! There must not be any air where he lives.

He must not have ever watched lizards bask in the desert sun, or seen the life swarming in a rich Pacific tide pool, or stood in an old growth forest and listened to the wind blowing through the hemlocks, or seen fish darting in a Cascade lake so clear it was like canoeing on glass, or watched salmon thrash and spawn in an icy cold mountain stream. I'm sure he's never put his eye to a microscope to see what lives in the puddle outside his door, or split slate to expose 400 million year old fossils. There's a world of millions of species living outside my door, built from the struggles of millions more over billions of years, and all he sees is one.

Perhaps we've found that Intelligent Designer—an inorganic mind living outside of our universe, in a dark, empty vacuum, cooly contemplating our messy little planet. And that machine-like intelligence is Mark Steyn.

Either that, or he's so damn dumb he's oblivious to the real world around him.

(paging William of Ockham…emergency call for Ockham, William…)

(Via Deltoid)


Trackback url: http://pharyngula.org/index/trackback/2839/ifNiSTEX/

Comments:
#38332: Les Lane — 09/01  at  06:27 PM
Mark Steyn? I always wondered who the great pumpkin was.



#38335: — 09/01  at  06:44 PM
One of the reasons I finally dropped my St. Paul Pioneer Press subscription is that they ran Steyn's column. I do not like being lied to on my own dime, thank you very much.



#38336: — 09/01  at  06:44 PM
Excellent. To go along with his other hobbyhorses, Steyn has now embraced Dominionism. He's never come across a crackpot rightwing theory he hasn't loved.



#38339: Gerry L — 09/01  at  07:05 PM
Who is going around saying we are "just another animal"? What is the "just" about? "Just" is a 4-letter word.

I am NOT a rock. I am NOT a cabbage. I am an animal. What's the big deal?

But PZM's take on it is much more eloquent.



#38343: arensb — 09/01  at  07:18 PM
Our differences aren't awesome at all, but subtle.

I'd say they're both. It's kind of like when, as a kid, I discovered that replacing one Spirograph wheel with a slightly different one produced a markedly different drawing.

While I'm increasingly aware of the similarities between humans and chimps (and, indeed, a lot of other living beings), there are still significant differences, like complex language. What I find awesome is not just our place in the vast profusion of diversity that evolution has produced, but also the fact that the things that make us uniquely and recognizably human arise from such small differences.



#38347: — 09/01  at  07:37 PM
This is completely off-topic and out of the blue, but has anyone seen http://www.godhatesfags.com's coverage of Katrina? Follow this link for some completely strange material.
http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/20050831_thank-god-for-katrina.html
I understand the Sodom and Gomorra story - there was 'not a single good man' in the entire city, so it was destroyed. But to say that there are a couple of homosexuals in New Orleans, therefore everyone deserves to die, is laughable. If you ever needed political buckshot to use against the religious right, this is it.



#38348: — 09/01  at  08:14 PM
Our intelligent designer designed us to live only on, what, 25% of the earth's surface? Gills too complicated?

If you lived by the ocean a look out the window would remind me of that.

Examining myself, I note that my teethe came in wrong and I have very poor visions, not to mention depression. Thanks a lot, Mr. designer. If the Intelligent Designer was omnipotent then he has no excuse.

If he's not, there are a few questions that arise: When in history did the IDer intervene? What species did he intervene with? What method did he use to change things?



#38351: — 09/01  at  08:33 PM
Mr. Steyn. Dude. Can we say denial? It's a river in Egypt, you know.

Mr. Meyers: You know, what I come to Pharyngula for is really cool science written at a level I can understand (some of the time, anyway.) And smart and snarky creationist body-slamming. And your lefty politics, you pinko. I'd almost forgotten that the first piece I read of yours was this beautiful piece.

You really are a hell of a writer. And this is a hell of a post.



#38354: — 09/01  at  09:37 PM
Man alive, anything to keep up that old, ego-calming delusion that we're what all this is meant for.



#38364: — 09/01  at  11:16 PM
.....without any bacteria or fungi or nemotodes or flatworms, the shit would just pile up (this would explain his written output, though). He-he nice touch Doc. You make learning a joy. Thanks



#38369: Jack Strocchi — 09/02  at  12:19 AM
I admire Pharyngula's cool headed, yet passionate, defence of science. However I have a couple of reservations about this post.

If you use a very loose determination of homology (so loose, that mice and people are nearly 100% identical, having the same suite of genes), we're about 20-25% homologous to plants.


I am no fan of Steyn and it is clear that his beliefs are based on ideological, rather than empirico-logical, considerations. But I have read a number of articles arguing that humans and pumpkins share many (50%+) genes. They generally argue that much of the genetic heritage, and familiarity with other species, is due to a common eukaryotic cellular constitution.

This makes sense to me as so many of both animal and plant eukaryotic cellular structures and functions are more or less the same (excepting the obvious differences based on plants chloroplastic activities) and therefore were conserved as homologues. Can Pharyngula source his claim that pumkin-human genetic familiarity is only ~25%?

His last ideas—that he lives in a world dominated and shaped by his species, as he can tell simply by looking out his window—are chilling. They reveal differences far greater than can be found between Homo sapiens and Cucurbita pepo.


I am even less of a fan of Creationism (and Dominionism) than I am of Steyn. But surely there is some truth in the theistic claim that human species is kind of special, even if not divine? Our extraordinary intellectual and moral qualities have alot to do with the fact that we are the most powerful species on earth.

We are the only species with a proper language and cumulative culture. This is having momentous consequences that have the potential to alter life on earth and beyond. Humans have extinguished and domesticated more species than any other species that come to mind. The fact of global warming, the launch of the first extra-terrestial UFO's (eg Voyager) and the emerging ability for this species to consciously direct our own genealogical evolution are all evidence for humanity's awesome power for good and evil.

Otherwise I applaud Pharyngula's demolition of Right wing anti-science, Steyn's in particular and ID in general.



#38371: — 09/02  at  12:24 AM
I just glanced out my window and from here it looks like shrubbery rules the world.



#38372: Jack Strocchi — 09/02  at  12:28 AM
Of course bacteria break down biota, and plants make it up so they have had more effect on the worlds environment than humans. But bacteria are a Domain and Plants are a Kingdom. So this is not an apples-to-apples comparison with the hominid species.



#38373: — 09/02  at  12:28 AM
#38347: Fatmop — 09/01 at 07:37 PM
This is completely off-topic and out of the blue, but has anyone seen http://www.godhatesfags.com's coverage of Katrina? Follow this link for some completely strange material.
http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/20050831_thank-god-for-katrina.html
I understand the Sodom and Gomorra story - there was 'not a single good man' in the entire city, so it was destroyed. But to say that there are a couple of homosexuals in New Orleans, therefore everyone deserves to die, is laughable. If you ever needed political buckshot to use against the religious right, this is it.


Doesn't matter, Fatmop. Sean Hannity has already told the wingnuts about Phelps, referring to him and his followers as "liberal anti-war protestors" so now that they have their programming, nothing you can say will change their minds.



#38397: — 09/02  at  08:02 AM
I sometimes wonder if dominionism isn't growing in popularity because of the increasing remove from nature in our society. When milk comes from a store, with all the cream removed and pasteuriezed, people don't know the tactile simiarities between a cow's teat and a woman's tit.

People don't remember that the same orifice with which chickens lay eggs, is the one they defecate with.

People may be reminded that honey is excreted by bees (and often jokingly called bee's excrement because of it) but they don't know how the muscles of a pig are sectioned to make the various slices of meat. Or how similar that muscle feels to human flesh.

Processed goods are necessary for our society to exist.
Yet, we may be losing that direct experiance with animals which clearly shows the many similarities between ourselves and other animals.

I don't know that there is a solution for this, other than fighting the hubris of dominionism as best as possible.

Cheers,

-Flex

P.S. Appropriately enough, the word is atheist. Coincidence? I think not! Proof of the supernatural!



#38411: Arun — 09/02  at  09:27 AM
Reading the newspaper today, I'm struck by the thought that the denial of the reality of evolution is merely the tip of the iceberg; evading reality is more than just a national pastime.

Here are some examples

- at years and years of disaster exercises in New Orleans, everyone evaded the question on how exactly to evacuate the city.

- the administration and Congress did not fund fully the preparation and mitigation measures

- we've been evading the need for a larger full-time army and have been raiding the National Guard instead

- we're ignoring the huge and growing federal deficit

- we're ignoring the huge and growing trade deficit

- at the individual level, people are saving less and less, and personal indebtness is at an all-time high

- SUV sales are growing at a time when oil production and refining capacity may have reached its peak

- the housing market may be in a bubble about to collapse (previously we went through the Internet bubble, which apparently taught nobody nothing. By the way, smart American investors sunk $30 billion into undersea fiber optics during that previous bubble, which are now bought up by telcos from India, Singapore, Hongkong for hundreds of millions of dollars)

- the NYT business section has a Gary Rivlin story "Billion-Dollar Baby Dot-Coms? Uh-Oh, Not Again"

- we, as a whole, voted for "Compassionate Conservatism" and then are shocked at the results

- we went to war with Iraq based on a string of lies and misrepresentations; we haven't captured bin Laden yet.

- Apparently we knew of the 9/11 ringleader well before 9/11; and so on - there appears to be a whole series of events of not acting on information.

- accounting fraud, such as in Enron and Worldcom, is just another attempt to alter reality

Not a very organized list, but it puts ID vs. evolution in perspective, I think. We are not a nation that can face reality. After all, if the above sinks in, the response is likely to be to chug a few brewskis to help us face it. smile



#38419: notheory — 09/02  at  10:08 AM
I am unconvinced by your missive.

Not that i disagree, but i am unconvinced. What you are trying to capture is something i have taken to referring to as the "Gestalt of Suck" that the Bush administration has woven. That is to say an inability to fully appreciate how screwed up things currently are unless taken in their totality.

The problem is that describing this gestalt, is that not only does one have to be right, and capable to defending the many particulars of such a case, but one must then also convincingly string them together into one whole. I've yet to see anyone do this well, and haven't thought of a way to do it myself.

Anyway that's why i'm unconvinced.

As for where IDC fits into this Gestalt is a complicated question, and depends what you want to take as the major themes of the Gestalt.

In conclusion, David Horowitz is an intellectual pygmy.



#38426: Arun — 09/02  at  10:39 AM
Just remembered, even <A HREF=http://www.fotuva.org/feynman/challenger-appendix.html> the Shuttle disaster that Feynman investigated</A> comes down to a managerial evasion of reality. This is not a Bush thing, this is a fundamental disease of the nation.

Finally, if we are to replace standard numerical probability usage with engineering judgment, why do we find such an enormous disparity between the management estimate and the judgment of the engineers? It would appear that, for whatever purpose, be it for internal or external consumption, the management of NASA exaggerates the reliability of its product, to the point of fantasy.

.....


Let us make recommendations to ensure that NASA officials deal in a world of reality in understanding technological weaknesses and imperfections well enough to be actively trying to eliminate them. They must live in reality in comparing the costs and utility of the Shuttle to other methods of entering space. And they must be realistic in making contracts, in estimating costs, and the difficulty of the projects. Only realistic flight schedules should be proposed, schedules that have a reasonable chance of being met. If in this way the government would not support them, then so be it. NASA owes it to the citizens from whom it asks support to be frank, honest, and informative, so that these citizens can make the wisest decisions for the use of their limited resources.

For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.



#38438: Arun — 09/02  at  11:14 AM
The more I think about it, the more it seems clear to me that the Bush Administration is more a symptom of a national disease than a cause of the national crisis.

Feynman was quite clear about NASA management (quoted above).

In the business world, during the dotcom boom days, there were widespread claims that Internet traffic was doubling every 100 days. There was, I believe, a paper by a Bell Labs researcher who showed that that claim was wrong; but everyone was going to get rich with the stocks of the new Internet economy, and this paper was ignored. BTW, I think the researcher is now with the University of Minnesota.

Rubbishing the claim:
http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/talks/igi.ppt

(Current?) location of Odlyzko:
http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/



#38441: Arun — 09/02  at  11:22 AM
This last, and I won't post more here on this idea that evading reality is a national malaise of which the Bush administration is merely a symptom.

http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/malik-bubbles.txt



#38471: — 09/02  at  12:50 PM
Don't worry. If chimps and the rest do go extinct within a generation you won't have to listen to "If we're descended from apes then why are there still ... " ever again.



#38477: — 09/02  at  01:13 PM
The last line holds the answer--Steyn is totally "oblivious to the real world around him."

That's why Darwin came up with his ideas--he looked very carefully at the world around him, and saw that it was more than just families in houses with petunias in the garden. He looked close enough and long enough that he was able to see the patterns in the diversity of life.



#38495: — 09/02  at  02:42 PM
"I just glanced out my window and from here it looks like shrubbery rules the world."

I am looking out the window of my office, which gives me a magnificent view of the drywall in the hallway (that's corporate America, I get a window in my office . . . that looks into the hallway) that is part of the DryWall Supreme Ruling Party. Drywall rules all.



#38506: Kagehi — 09/02  at  04:13 PM
This is completely off-topic and out of the blue, but has anyone seen http://www.godhatesfags.com's coverage of Katrina? Follow this link for some completely strange material.


The funny thing is, apparently the Lafittes gay bar in New Orleans survived, but pretty much every single church in every effected city was destroyed. I don't know, seems like a contradiction to me... lol

Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proved innocent - Robert A. Heinlein



#38507: — 09/02  at  04:25 PM
"Sean Hannity has already told the wingnuts about Phelps, referring to him and his followers as 'liberal anti-war protestors'..."

Huh? Phelps & Co. are <b>liberals<b>?!? Boy, talk about spin! Hannity is even more disconnected from reality than I thought!

Wait...this does make a twisted sort of sense...disavow one of the wingnuttiest of wingnuts and blame the other side for him and his rantings!



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