Pharyngula

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Thursday, June 02, 2005

Maybe Y chromosomes make you stupid…?

I wrote briefly on that nonsense from Max Ross in Men's News Daily (as did Sadly, No). Now the publisher of MND has leapt to Ross's defense in a numbingly dull-witted article. Ross mangled the concept of sexual selection in his tale of sexism; this fellow LaSalle now goes on and on, giving a muddled accounting of memes and Kuhn and paradigm shifts and Dawkins…it's a load of sophomoric tripe from someone who clearly has only heard about these things second hand.

His conclusion, believe it or not, is that because so many biologically competent people jumped hard on Ross's bastardized evolutionary tale, 1) they must feel threatened, 2) they would only be threatened if Ross were telling the truth, and 3) we must be on the verge of a dramatic paradigm shift in the sciences that will 4) show that Ross is right, and that MND is a bastion of science and thought! Also, 5) MND gets more traffic, so they win.

What does all of this have to do with the Max Ross piece, and the subsequent reaction by evolutionary biologists from Sadly No! and Pharyngula.org?

Simple. These critics say they are scientists. Yet it appears that even scientists occasionally converge in pack groups, and conduct co-ordinated dive-bombings of infidels.

Put another way: the very people who claims to be advocates for the free expression of science have demonstrably twisted the truth of the Max Ross article for purely ideological reasons. In short, Sadly No!'s 'divebomb' operation was a 'pre-emptive strike' on a potentially dangerous heretic. (And if you consider Kuhn's notion of paradigm shift as a subset of evolutionary theory, you could almost infer that the posters have felt a communal shudder of fear at Ross' heretical disregard for their world-view.)

Sadly No! and friends are thus demonstrably intellectually dishonest. They are also very poor scientists indeed!

There is a simpler explanation. Ross's biology was so appallingly and obviously wrong, that anyone could see how ludicrous his understanding was. Take this example from Ross's article:

Almost universal among mammals, ‘nature’ has mostly opted to leave the desires of females out of the equation in regards to procreating.

That's completely backwards from what we've learned about sexual selection since Darwin. Much of sexual selection is about mate choice by females—male birds have flashy colors and elk have massive antlers because they are trying to get females to mate with them; if rape were the rule and females did not exercise choice, we wouldn't see these kinds of interesting phenomena.

Mike LaSalle seems to be a bit nutty. He also has a long-winded essay on why he is not a conservative. Surprisingly, he doesn't mention anything about his political positions…that might actually make sense. Instead, we get this:

I am not, apparently, a Conservative. How could I be? I don't come from "Jesusland". I was born, instead, on the outskirts of a major left wing outpost, the SF Bay Area. That means, by definition, I have no ancestral (or maybe 'meme') affiliations with Protestant Christian Conservatism in all its glory.

Maybe this is another of those 'paradigm shifts' we're going to have to accept—"conservative" and "liberal" are going to become hereditary titles. Either that, or LaSalle is just a kook.

I guess it doesn't matter. Since number of visitors to a website is the important thing, as long as insanity draws in the traffic, he'll be happy.


Trackback url: http://pharyngula.org/index/trackback/2371/HT9hCqPo/

Comments:
#26959: Brad R. — 06/02  at  06:09 PM
The staff of Sadly, No! never claimed to be evolutionary biologists. In fact, we (OK, I) mangled the definition of "primate" in our (my) original post, much to the embarassment of my English major ass.

That aside, I'm still smarter than Max.



#26960: — 06/02  at  06:13 PM
I vote for kook. His how-to book is missing a few steps, to say the least.



#26961: — 06/02  at  06:17 PM
All LaSalle says is that because Ross' piece got such a powerful negative response, it must be true, revolutionary and ahead of its time. Nowhere does he discuss the content of the article, which was just gibberish.



#26962: — 06/02  at  06:19 PM
So don't even bother reading the thing, don't know why I did.



#26963: Pete — 06/02  at  06:35 PM
>All LaSalle says is that because Ross' piece got such a powerful negative response, it must be true, revolutionary and ahead of its time.

Reminds me of something Carl Sagan said once -
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.


I'm surprised the editor guy didn't mention cultural relativism too. That's probably something else he heard during his "academic training" (such as it was). Oh well. Let's not feed the trolls now.



#26964: theBHC — 06/02  at  07:04 PM
I could not resist posting a comment on the MND site. I found the editor's "reasoning" quite hilarious:

Let's ignore that much of Max Ross's sexist pontificating is just plain wrong (it has long been demonstrated that, in many if not most species, it is the female who is the selector -- not the male).

Are you seriously comparing a cultural -- or even scientific -- paradigm shift to Max Ross's grade-school misogyny and that your magazine is now to be looked upon as a forum for cutting edge cultural and scientific theories?

While Max may not be funny, that certainly is.



#26966: Becky — 06/02  at  08:50 PM
The Max Ross article is a complete bastardization of evolutionary biology and human relations, among other things. There is no defense for it...I'm too angry and insulted to leave a comment for LeSalle.



#26967: Josh Friess — 06/02  at  09:00 PM
"Since number of visitors to a website is the important thing, as long as insanity draws in the traffic, he'll be happy."

Pot, meet kettle.



#26969: — 06/02  at  09:31 PM
Stupidest thing about these idiots is that the original publications by researchers where driven by male chovinism and victorian ideals, so a lot of BS got into biology that has since been disproven (and a great deal only in the last maybe 10-15 years). These idiots don't even realize that a paradigm shift has aleady happened, and their idiotic version of reality got squashed already.



's avatar #26974: moioci — 06/02  at  10:22 PM
MND: ...conduct co-ordinated dive-bombings of infidels.

Anyone else notice how they misspelled 'morons'?



#26978: Buridan — 06/02  at  11:11 PM
"if you consider Kuhn's notion of paradigm shift as a subset of evolutionary theory..."

He obviously hasn't read Kuhn or he wouldn't have made such a stupid statement. Come on, if you're going to use someone as an authority, at least read a few pages of what they've written!



#26993: Alon Levy — 06/03  at  02:07 AM
Besides the fact that The Structure of Scientific Revolutions doesn't say anything that extreme, I have my own misgivings with what Kuhn says in it about paradigm shifts. The basic argument I have against this book is that paradigm shifts always bring the discipline closer to the truth; setbacks are only possible when compensated for by overwhelming superiority, so for example Newtonian mechanics couldn't explain gravity, but was very simple and had immense predictive power. In this case, what is relevant is that Ross's drivel in a way advanced a paradigm that was long discarded, and paradigm shifts only go in one direction. If anyone's interested I can write a full-fledged article critiquing Kuhn and send it to UTI Annex or submit it to a carnival like Tangled Bank.



#26997: — 06/03  at  02:28 AM
The problem with Kuhn is that, in many ways, he anticipated the failings of postmodernists. Much of what he says is either trivially true or demonstrably false depending on how you read it.

Something I've always marvelled at is how people are always saying, 'as Kuhn showed...' - Kuhn didn't demonstrate anything, he simply proposed or asserted something, often using very poor examples and analogies.



#27014: coturnix — 06/03  at  06:17 AM
Alon Levy:"If anyone's interested I can write a full-fledged article critiquing Kuhn and send it to UTI Annex or submit it to a carnival like Tangled Bank. "

Please do. I'd like to read it.



#27045: — 06/03  at  09:52 AM
Not a new paradigm shift. From Gilbert & Sullivan's Iolanthe: "every boy and every girl that's born alive is a little Liberal or else a little Conservative."



#27055: — 06/03  at  10:24 AM
Re the hereditary titles - that may be the way to go. Cheney recently called democrats a "faith", and if the political parties are religions, perhaps the leanings of liberal/conservative could be hereditary. Perhaps we'll see laws regarding those of one group or another marrying....



#27059: — 06/03  at  10:34 AM
The worship of the all-encompassing State, from whom all blessings flow and to whom we owe all, is the religion of our age.

Badger badger smile



#27063: — 06/03  at  10:45 AM
I'm reminded of a squib I read several years ago in a chance-found issue of (I think it was) Maxim or a similar softcore "men's magazine", in answer to a reader's question about why men tend to fall asleep after orgasm. The anonymous editorial reply was a total hash on how this enabled women to hare off in pursuit of yet more sperm, wrong on every level at which you bothered to consider it. I couldn't decide then, and still can't now, whether this represented any form of cultural progress in that at least an attempt was being made to deal with the question in evolutionary terms. Compared to MND, Maxim comes out looking like Nature.



#27065: — 06/03  at  10:51 AM
Almost universal among mammals, ‘nature’ has mostly opted to leave the desires of females out of the equation in regards to procreating.

No, Ross--just to procreating with you.



#27068: Alon Levy — 06/03  at  11:06 AM
Alright, thanks for the heads up Coturnix. I'll do that ASAP.



#27103: — 06/03  at  12:56 PM
After a decade of experience and testing, I think I can safely say for sure that having an X chromosome makes one stupid.



#27117: Raven — 06/03  at  01:36 PM
After a decade of experience and testing, I think I can safely say for sure that having an X chromosome makes one stupid.


No doubt my avian namesakes would concur smile.

(Ok, that was a lame, obscure, one-elective-in-repro-biology geek joke--mammals have an XY-chromosome sex-determination system, while birds by contrast have a WZ-chromosome sex-determination system. I really need to get out more...)

Seriously, though, PZ and coturnix--are the two systems totally independent, or does the recent literature on platypus sex chromosomes suffice to connect them, or is it still an open question?



's avatar #27123: PZ Myers — 06/03  at  02:12 PM
I think the answer is that they're independent -- synteny analysis shows that the avian sex chromosomes are not homologs of the mammalian sex chromosomes, as I recall.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris



#27137: saurabh — 06/03  at  03:03 PM
Um, also, someone get these boys an editor, QUICK. Nothing makes your writing look like pseudointellectual tripe more than being unable to form a sentence correctly.



#27204: — 06/04  at  09:37 AM
I have a pretty high self-esteme, and per default always asume that I am right, but if I wrote something that was as greastly debunked as the stuff Ross wrote, I would very quickly figure out that I made serious mistakes.

That's what bothers me the most with the ID crowd - not the fact that they are wrong, but the fact that they continue saying the same stupid things again and again, even af people have explained why it is wrong.



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