Pharyngula

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Wednesday, July 13, 2005

My Three Sins

Frederick Turner has identified three sins of evolutionists. It's at Tech Central Station, so you know it's gotta be good (no, I don't usually read TCS: blame Orac for telling me about this).

The first is a profound failure of the imagination, which comes from a certain laziness and complacency. Somehow people, who should, because of their studies in biology, have been brought to a state of profound wonder and awe at the astonishing beauty and intricacy and generosity of nature, can think of nothing better to say than to gloomily pronounce it all meaningless and valueless. Even if one is an atheist, nature surely has a meaning, that is, an abstract and volitional and mental implication: the human world and its ideas and arts and loves, including our appreciation for the beauty of nature itself.

Oh.

Well.

When a critic starts off like that, one is tempted to just dump the idiot's screed in the incinerator and be done with it. Seriously...becoming a biologist takes four years of undergraduate work, four years of graduate study, a 2-3 year post-doc, and a great deal of desperate scrabbling to land one of the all too rare university positions. More than a decade of training isn't exactly a commitment one makes out of despair.

Obviously, Mr Turner has us confused with the goths. Goths believe in vampires, wear lots of eyeshadow, and have interesting piercings. Evolutionists are typically nerdy and read lots of books and get all goo-goo-eyed over squid and leeches and beetles and tropical birds. I hope that helps.

The second sin is a profound moral failure -- the failure of gratitude. If one found out that one had a billion dollars free and clear in one's bank account, whose source was unknown, one should want to find out who put it there, or if the donor were not a person but a thing or a system, what it was that has so benefited us. And one would want to thank whoever or whatever put it in our account. Our lives and experiences are surely worth more than a billion dollars to us, and yet we did not earn them and we owe it to someone or something to give thanks. And to despise and ridicule those who rightly or wrongly do want to give thanks and identify their benefactor as "God" is to compound the sin.

Oh, yes, that is a nice example. So, if I were to find a surprising billion dollars in my bank account, the right thing for me to do is to go to my local priest, who will announce that he knows who put it there, but he can't show me the guy...but he is authorized to collect 10% of the money. The wrong thing to do would be to actually go to the bank itself, ask them to trace the deposit, and figure out exactly what material agent was responsible for the dramatic mistake. I think I like that analogy.

I also shouldn't be surprised, because it isn't just me that got a billion dollars: every person on the planet got it. Every nematode, fruit fly, and musk ox, too. When it's something ubiquitous and bestowed upon every living thing, maybe we shouldn't regard it as a personal gift, but as a basic property. And that just maybe it wasn't a present from some invisible anthropomorphic Superman, and there isn't anyone to whom we should be thankful.

I also think that if every fruit fly was buzzing around with a billion dollar portfolio, my own account would be radically devalued. There's some economic principle behind that, I think.

The third sin is again dishonesty. In many cases it is clear that the beautiful and hard-won theory of evolution, now proved beyond reasonable doubt, is being cynically used by some -- who do not much care about it as such -- to support an ulterior purpose: a program of atheist indoctrination, and an assault on the moral and spiritual goals of religion. A truth used for unworthy purposes is quite as bad as a lie used for ends believed to be worthy. If religion can be undermined in the hearts and minds of the people, then the only authority left will be the state, and, not coincidentally, the state's well-paid academic, legal, therapeutic and caring professions. If creationists cannot be trusted to give a fair hearing to evidence and logic because of their prior commitment to religious doctrine, some evolutionary partisans cannot be trusted because they would use a general social acceptance of the truth of evolution as a way to set in place a system of helpless moral license in the population and an intellectual elite to take care of them.

Oooh. He used the "proved" word. I hate that, even if he's saying it in support of a good, well-supported theory.

Unfortunately, after starting off with a nice sentiment, Turner sinks quickly into the usual ignorant atheist-hating babble.

Who are these mysterious "some" who do not care about evolution, but use it only as a tool for atheist indoctrination? That's a very silly accusation.

Who is promoting atheist indoctrination at all? I know a fair number of atheists, and that's an extremely poor characterization of their goals. As long as we're left alone, you can believe any ol' goofy myth you want. It's true that we do oppose religion when it makes its proponents stupid (case in point: Mr Turner), but we'd rather alleviate that problem with education, not indoctrination.

Oh, and once again we see the ridiculous canard that atheists believe in "moral license" and only religion can provide "moral and spiritual goals". Please. Religion has set a very poor example of moral guidance, so don't try to tell me that a book full of war, rape, genocide, and slavery sets the principles by which I should live. Atheism is not nihilism, gloom, and decadence.

Hmmm. Maybe Turner has confused atheists with goths, too.


*Yes, I know goths can be polite and well-mannered and good people, too. I'm playing with the goth stereotype, OK?


Trackback url: http://pharyngula.org/index/trackback/2585/dvyW1vu1/

Comments:
#31991: — 07/13  at  12:30 PM
I wish more Americans, and more Christians, knew something about Buddhism.

According to the story, Buddha considered questions of origins to be very much irrelevant. Where the universe came from, and who created people, are irrelevant to the issue of you, and your relations with others, today, which is what is important.

Yet Buddhism very definitely has morals, and ethics. Arguably, they have a stronger basis than Christian morals and ethics, because Buddhist scriptures aren't full of exceptions where it's okay to kill/rob/rape those people.



#31993: Redshift — 07/13  at  12:36 PM
the ridiculous canard that atheists believe in "moral license" and only religion can provide "moral and spiritual goals"

Yeah, that's one of my major buttons, too. I'm not an atheist, but I'm not religious, either. People have morals and values because they're taught morals and values, not because they have a religion. They can be taught through religion, but considering how many religious institutions teach bigotry and hatred, I'd say if we start knowing what should be taught instead of who should teach it, we're much more likely to recognize a bad upbringing whether it's secular or religious.

Oh, and on the main point, anyone who believes that biologists don't have "a state of profound wonder and awe at the astonishing beauty and intricacy and generosity of nature" has clearly never read anything written by a biologist, and is putting up a furious fight against a strawman.



#31995: pough — 07/13  at  12:46 PM
The only real response I can summon to something like that is, "Huh?" Well, that and: "That guy's got his head so far up his ass there's a lump in his throat."



#31996: — 07/13  at  12:53 PM
So, here we are at the core of the matter.
"Does the world (universe, man, louse) has a meaning?"
"Yes, say the God people."
"I don't know, says the atheist, agnosticist, scientist"
"So you are meaningless, hence valueless and without morality." says the first.
I got it. Did I?

Marco Ferrari



#31997: — 07/13  at  12:55 PM
...the world have a meaning.



#31999: — 07/13  at  01:14 PM
Heh heh: "well-paid academic" professions. I assume it has something to do with that billion dollars. I'd better check my bank balance.

If Turner got even five bucks for his Tech Central piece, then he is more than "well-paid"; he's over-paid.



#32000: — 07/13  at  01:14 PM
"The second sin is a profound moral failure -- the failure of gratitude"

Well, let me express my graditude right now to the intelligent designer who gave me kness that wore out before I was finished with them and eyes that are slowly but inexorably deteriorating. And thanks for the cancer he gave my wife. And the heart failure he gave my grandmothers. And the GERD and subsequent death from pulmonary fibrosis that he gave my father. And, to broaden the scope, thanks for the cancer he gave my dog. That animal certainly deserved to suffer terrible pain before he died. Did I forget anything?



#32002: — 07/13  at  01:24 PM
I only spent four years in undergrad as a biology major. I get excited about spiders, and sea slugs, and other animals. I am an atheist. Sometimes the extraordinary miracles of life move me to tears. I did not, and do not, consider ignorance as a prerequisite to wonder.

I think that only profound ignorance can explain people who don't understand the wonder of the world is almost invariably in the things that we can learn in it.



#32003: — 07/13  at  01:28 PM
To be 'fair', Frederick Turner is haranguing not all evolutionists, but "polemical evolutionists". You know, the ones with the secret agenda.

In his article he points out that evolution is compatible with religious faith, as if he's some sort of calm, impartial voice of reason. I wonder why those polemical evolutionists never bring up this compatibility themselves?



#32004: Pinko Punko — 07/13  at  01:31 PM
If these guys actually knew anything about evolution AT ALL, they would be amazed at the complexity and wonder of it all, they are so concerned with what they believe to be the fundamental conclusion of evolution being true, that the world has know meaning, yet their belief in something else defines existence to have meaning. Since their belief is what gives their life meaning, reagrdless of the truth of their beliefs, why not just believe that life has meaning, but with and accurate view of biology? I heart TCS!



#32006: Pinko Punko — 07/13  at  01:42 PM
Four years of graduate study!! Holy crap, what super geniuses live here over at Pharyngula! At Three Bulls! We have 14 years of grad school amongst the various two Ph.D. situations. We must have been on the slow boat to crapville. I bet the TCS guy got his in even less time, making him the super geniusest of them all.



Trackback: On Sinning Tracked on: A Concateny of Softly Spoken Lies (199.1.92.202) at 2005 07 13 14:16:31
From Pharyngula— Tech Central Station carries some bit about the whole evolution cultural scrap being “a proxy fight between atheists and biblical literalists over the existence and nature of a divine authority and the desirability of stat...



#32015: — 07/13  at  02:22 PM
Someone has said that atheists are the last minority against which it's OK to discriminate. While I dislike whining protestations of victimhood, whoever said that had a good point.

People, especially religious fundamentalists, who wouldn't know an atheist if one came up and bit them on their behinds, are very fond of making all sorts of sweeping generalizations about them: atheists are depressed and angry all the time, they're immoral, they have a sinister agenda, etc., etc. Where are people getting this crap? Is it in church? Are they hearing it from their pastors/priests/rabbis/mullahs, etc.? Or is this the dreaded Conventional Wisdom?

Personally, I'm quite happy living in a world where vengeful sky deities don't suddenly kill, maim and torture people for some unspecified holy "plan" that no one here on earth is privy to. I'm happy being responsible for making my life meaningful, rather than having to have someone else's idea of meaning dictated to me. And I'm glad I live in a country where freedom to believe...or not believe...is still protected by law (although the fundies are working hard on changing that, but don't get me started...)



#32016: — 07/13  at  02:25 PM
PZ, you didn't speak to the hypocrisy in the statement about evolution leaving the state as the only authority. Our conservative president uses religion to acomplish that very goal.

Also, this isn't the first time I've read a christian trying to convince his readers that religeous people appreciate nature more than the scientists who devote their entire lives to studying it. Do these people ever think all the way through their arguments?



#32024: — 07/13  at  02:47 PM
Why do people such as this Turner guy seem always to assume that in order to "believe" in evolution, one must necessarily be atheist? What a load of crap.



#32026: Orac — 07/13  at  02:50 PM
OK, I take the blame for forwarding this to PZ. However, it was just so mind-numbingly stupid that I thought he might enjoy eviscerating it.

My big beef with the piece is his strawman that evolution has somehow led to pronounce the "astonishing beauty and intricacy and generosity of nature" as "meaningless and valueless." Note the implied false dichotomy there. You either tolerate the IDiocy of "intelligent design" or you believe that the beauty of nature is "meaningless and valueless."

If biologists thought the beauty of nature was "meaningless and valueless," why in the world would they devote their lives to trying to understand nature? It makes no sense.

--
Orac “A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”
http://oracknows.blogspot.com



's avatar #32028: John M. Price — 07/13  at  03:06 PM
One Billion US Dollars for a life?

Has he ever talked with a health insurance company? Even thought about one?

Yeppers, he's right on the mark ....



#32029: — 07/13  at  03:12 PM
Ken MacLeod reminds us of a biologist who had something to say on the subject of atheism:

Jacques Monod won the 1965 Nobel Prize for Chemistry for his work in molecular biology. In Chance and Necessity (1970, translated 1971) he looks at the philosophical implications of molecular biology. They are, for Monod, rigorously atheistic. In nature, 'invariance precedes teleonomy'. This is his way of saying that purpose is a product of natural selection. Belief in God, gods and spirits is what Monod calls animism: the projection into nature of the purposive properties of the human central nervous system. Discarding animism is the first principle of science, which Monod calls the principle of objectivity.



#32031: — 07/13  at  03:42 PM
From the article in question:
It begins innocently as a wise recognition that faith must precede reason, even if the faith is only in reason itself (as Gödel showed, reason cannot prove its own validity).

This is not at all what Gödel proved. He showed that mathematical systems with certain properties are incomplete, i.e, they contain statements that are true but cannot be proved. It's not particularly surprising that he would think this, though - if the guy can't recognize the fact that atheists and nihilists are not mutually inclusive sets, there's really no way he could understand what Gödel proved.



#32032: — 07/13  at  04:09 PM
David, that's an interesting way of looking at nature. I hadn't really thought of it, but seeing god in the workings of everything is, indeed, very much like animism.



#32036: jre — 07/13  at  05:08 PM
Tech Central Station is the type specimen for blogs written by smug, scientifically illiterate wingnuts who believe they are ripping the lid off liberal orthodoxy. The next higher classification (to which Scientology also belongs) is that of "things that manage to be both scary and pathetic at the same time."

PZ has mentioned some of the larger and smellier of Frederick Turner's rhetorical cowflops, but by no means all. He also cites (brace yourself) Kurt Godel as authority for the assertion that "reason cannot prove its own validity." Misty-eyed invocation of the standard Godel misconceptions to make a metaphysical point is a flunking offense in any halfway decent philosophy class -- and yet this ninny is a professor at UT-Dallas. Go figure.



's avatar #32043: Raven — 07/13  at  05:32 PM
Xerxes1729:
"(as Gödel showed, reason cannot prove its own validity)."

This is not at all what Gödel proved. He showed that mathematical systems with certain properties are incomplete, i.e, they contain statements that are true but cannot be proved. It's not particularly surprising that he would think this, though - if the guy can't recognize the fact that atheists and nihilists are not mutually inclusive sets, there's really no way he could understand what Gödel proved.


Maybe I'm being too kind here, but I always hear this type invocation of Gödel's theorem as kind of a transitivity argument, the implication being "if something as formalized and constrained as first-order logic can be shown to have irresolvable gaps, how much more so must that be true for bigger, less-formal systems.". A poorly-formed, argument, true, but with a grain of a point to it.

Or maybe he's just making an argumentum ex rectum, after all, and I'm just giving him too much credit.



#32048: — 07/13  at  06:53 PM
Evolutionists are typically nerdy and read lots of books and get all goo-goo-eyed over squid and leeches and beetles and tropical birds.


I'm tutoring a boy who's just like that. He wants to be a marine biologist, whick is pretty cool--how many eleven-year-old kids want to be a marine biologist? He absoltely adores squids. I really wish I had someone like... well, you, locally to introduce him to to. /wistfulsidenote



#32052: — 07/13  at  07:47 PM
Many are the times that I have heard a "believer" espouse this notion that, if one doesn't believe in God, then one has no moral grounding whatsoever. And every time I hear this it frightens the crap out of me, because if the only thing that's keeping these "believers" from wreaking havoc is their logically insupportable trust/faith, then what's to happen if they ever experience doubt?
While I do not have a specific faith, or even believe in God (though there are times the idea seems like it might be comforting), I DO know the difference between right and wrong, and I try to be a good neighbor/citizen/father/etc. regardless. And every self-proclaimed atheist I have met seems to share this awareness of social responsibility and respect for the dignity of the individual, without the need for an invisible, all-powerful, yet strangly reclusive man in the sky.



's avatar #32058: John M. Price — 07/13  at  08:18 PM
Megan, if he (said 11yo) likes squid, he will fall in love with cuttle fish. Really. At least get him a good video of these beasts. They are amazing.

Now then, I've looked at the paper. It is, well, flat lame. Too bad this commentary can't be included there.

Why do intelligent folk do this to themselves?



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