Pharyngula

Pharyngula has moved to http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/

Sunday, November 20, 2005

Naturals and Unnaturals

I think we've been dividing the world along the wrong axes. It's normal for us to dichotomize our interactions along simple, one-dimensional lines—liberal-conservative, men-women, atheist-theist—and while that is a useful way to categorize (as long as we don't get so committed to the extremes that we fail to recognize them as continua), I fear that we've neglected to notice one dimension that is extremely relevant to the current discourse.

One pole of the dichotomy is the one on which I think I mostly reside. These are people who are committed to reason, empiricism, and natural evidence—those who believe in the complete (or near complete) significance of the real world, the universe, all matter, energy, and laws of science to our lives. We agree that we lack a comprehensive understanding of the universe, but experience (that important empirical component) leads us to expect that studying our world ever more accurately is going to lead us to greater understanding. We atheists are prone to the over-reaching sin of associating this point of view specifically with our position on religion, but I would suggest that there is more to it than that. There are devout Christians who are no less committed to the natural view, even if they do suspend it to some degree when they're in a church…I can't hold that against them, since I do the same thing in the bedroom (it's true, I do worship the Goddess now and then.) Similarly, this view cuts across political lines, too, and some conservatives and liberals respect it, and some reject it.

I need a label, so I'm going to call those people who consider material evidence paramount and regard the real world as a mostly sufficient container of phenomena that define our existence the Naturals. I consider myself one of them, so I think these are the good guys, for the most part; it doesn't mean that all Naturals are correct in all matters, though, because there are many whose interpretations of evidence I disagree with, and vice versa. All that is important is that we agree that measurement and testing and analysis are the best ways to resolve our differences.

What's the contra position? There are those who think inspiration and intuition and all the internal imagery of their minds define their external reality; that what they wish to be so will be so if only they can articulate it and select and distort evidence for the purposes of persuasion. What they see is only applicable and interesting if it reinforces their presuppositions, and all else is a lure and a distraction, an illusion that must be disregarded or rationalized to fit into a predetermined explanation. Many religious people are examples: they have a vision of an unseen power that acts on the world, and despite the lack of evidence and frequent contradictions between their beliefs and reality, they insist on interpreting everything as a shadow of something impalpable and unimaginable.

I'm going to call them Unnaturals, plainly enough.

Obvious examples of Unnatural extremism are Pat Robertson and his unfounded belief in a vengeful God who is going kneecap anyone who disagrees with him; the members of the Bush administration who mangled evidence to justify going to war, and decided to ignore the expertise of their generals and prosecute that war with insufficient force; and every creationist on the planet. It should also be obvious that there are ranges of Unnatural activity, and even Pat Robertson uses a spoon to eat his cornflakes rather than praying to God to levitate it into his mouth (I hope. One can't be entirely sure with Evil Uncle Chuckles.) Strictly speaking, Unnaturalism is an activity or way of thinking, not individuals themselves, although some do do an amazingly consistent job of personifying the principle.

On the other side, we find Rev. Coyne, the Vatican astronomer who dismisses Intelligent Design, who is clearly mostly a Natural supporting science and evolution, but who occasionally tosses out an Unnatural bon mot about his religious beliefs, or Richard Dawkins, who is much more consistent in his commitment to naturalism—but Rev. Coyne and Dawkins probably have more in common in their ideas than they have in opposition.

Where all this is useful is in helping us distinguish useful arguments from Unnatural nonsense, and in characterizing debates rhetorically. For instance, we don't oppose Ken Ham and Kent Hovind and similar reverend creationists because they are Christians, but because they are Unnatural Christians who defy reasonable Augustinian principles of respecting the evidence of (in their opinion) God's Creation. We don't necessarily oppose George W. Bush because he is a Republican politician, but because he practices Unnatural politics, the advocacy of unrealistic goals by impractical means. I'd like to chew out Democrat Tom Harkin for his unnatural support of 'alternative' medicine, too, so this isn't solely a Republican foible.

Anyway, a number of people have falsely assumed that I and other atheists hate religious people. This is not true; instead, we simply despise Unnatural thinking. I'd be more willing to take greater care about avoiding blanket condemnations of the religious if they in turn would be more willing to recognize when their thinking has taken an Unnatural turn, and recognize that Unnatural arguments have absolutely no weight with me, and should have no weight with other rational people.

(crossposted to The American Street)

Trackback url: http://pharyngula.org/index/trackback/3395/nlcn8BSH/

Comments:
#49906: Burt Humburg — 11/20  at  03:36 PM
I agree with the spirit of your proposed taxonomy. I can't remember when the thought struck me, but it seemed to me long ago that there couldn't be that much difference between people who held in common that they allowed reason and data to permeate and inform their beliefs but simply differed as to whether to extend this evidence-based reasoning to every facet of their lives or not.

My take on things was simply to arrange "ways of thinking about the world" on a continuum, with data, reason, and logic on the one hand and faith and belief on the other; my argument was simply that everyone makes decisions anywhere on that continuum at any point in their lives. The taxonomy you proposed seems more useful than mine, so I will probably adopt it, but I don't think we disagree.

If I could change one thing in society, it would be the idea that non-scientific is synonymous with unimportant or wrong. No one can prove that I love my brother, but I do nonetheless. And if we can get Christians to recognize that it isn't the job of science to validate their beliefs - and correlatively for atheists to stop thinking they've won the argument when they suggest that conclusions based on faith are in any and all cases wrong or unimportant - then the support for ID creationism should nicely dissolve.

Of course, I'm an optimist.

BCH



#49907: — 11/20  at  03:46 PM
I like the distinction, and it's not quite as invidious as Dennett's "Brights" tag. Better "unnatural" than "dim". I guess.



#49908: — 11/20  at  03:46 PM
I like the taxonomy, though I think maybe the grouping names need a bit of work. But that's details.



#49909: coturnix — 11/20  at  03:59 PM
You say at the beginning that those are all continua, but they are not. The rest of the post is a list of examples of the ways people partition their worlds into natural and natural. In other words, on any topic, you can pick a natural or an unnatural explanation - there is nothing grey or in-between, or semi-demi-natural, i.e., there is no continuum.

You can put people on a graph ranging from 0 (using unnatural explanations 100% of the time) and 100 (using natural explanation 100% of the time). That's a bar graph, not a line graph. In other words, there will be 100 bins (or whichever way you decide to break it down), sharply separated from each other, not a smooth line.

So, the worldviews are TWO separate ways of thinking. The people hold both worldviews and choose to use one OR the other in different situations.



#49911: rob stowell — 11/20  at  04:05 PM
Nice article, but I'm a little worried you give too much to the oppostition- or cut some of "our" (I'm certainly an atheistic "natural") support of at the knees.
Specifically I think you might be under-estimating or under-rating the extent that science- and even constructing the world realistically- depends on imagination and intuition and leaps of faith. Yes, we insist that such leaps be justified, replicated etc "natualistically" - empirical evidence, etc. But the best science is often speculative as well- advancing in a bold leap where it would seem an angel might fear to tread...
I also think this catagorisation could cut away the artistic community- in my experience, mostly leftist atheists- by denying the importance of what they do. Novelists and artists are often intensely involved with this world- observation and detail are almost as important to art as to science, in part because they are what can make art "truthful". It's often underestimated how much "mere" fiction can teach us about the world, but frankly I think you can learn as much- or more- about the human animal reading a dozen great novels as the same number of great scientific texts.
Anyway, I agree with the thrust of this in many ways, but I think you tend to give the "anti-ralists" too much. The most literal interpretations of the bible, for example, are likely to be the LEAST imaginative. This mad religious blindness seems almost unique to the USA- from the outside it's hard to understand. Did the US simply "inherit" the genes of Europe's religious nutters from the early colonies? Have americans simply stepped off the reality bus due to a combination of wealth, shared illusions, and Freud's "pleasure principle"? Or do they (this is my wife's idea) simply yearn for "god" because they weren't breast-fed!
Vive la resistance!
It's a mystery....



's avatar #49912: PZ Myers — 11/20  at  04:05 PM
Good point. It's people who represent the continua.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris



#49913: coturnix — 11/20  at  04:06 PM
This goes for your other "continua". You are either atheist or theist, but you can also be a patchwork - being theist at some times, and atheist in other situations. You cannot be a semi-theist.

Just like with natural/unnatrual dichotomy, the same goes woth political ideology. Rare are the people who apply 100% conservative, or 100% liberal worldview in every aspect of their lives and politics. Most people put together a complex puzzle with some conservative and some liberal pieces. There is no such thing as a moderate. It's just that everyone has an idiosynchratic combination of puzzle pieces.

From genes, hormones, anatomy, physiology to psychology, some of your "parts" are male and some female. We are all hodgpodges of male and female aspects of sex, gender and sexual orientation. Each one of us has different parts and different proportions of parts being male or female. Again, there is no smooth continuum - it is a patchwork.



#49914: ekzept — 11/20  at  04:19 PM
technical maths digression

there's an internal intellectual tendency to want one-dimensional or scalar representations of complicated matters. i believe it's a feature of our reasoning apparatus, although maths folk might give me an argument.

the point is unless something is one-dimensional, there's no easy way of comparing two things and say one is bigger or smaller or better or worse than another. this is because one-dimensional sets akin to the integers are totally ordered and, being decision-oriented folk, for clearly selective reasons ("Do I go get water now, in bright daylight? Do I look for more food? Do I stick by the cave? Do I have sex?), we want to be able to make decisions.

but it's important to recognize, as PZ has here, that doing this kind of projection into one dimension loses information. whether the information lost is important or not can't be said without a careful examination of the projection. and it's possible sets of things to be compared might have some order, but that ordering is often partial.

given an arbitrary Thing out there, a good description of it has many characteristics. if these are each put on their own dimension, then y'see the difficulty of comparison.

note: there are math structures called lattices which allow for arbitrary comparisons, but it may not be possible to determine whether two arbitrary members of such a set are "greater than" or "less than" one another. in other words, it is possible, if the lattice be complete, to tell a thing which is bigger than the one you're holding, and less than the thing you're holding. but it may not be possible to tell whether the thing you're holding in one hand is "greater than" or "less than" the thing you're holding in the other hand. moreover, without special side conditions, unlike in a total ordering, that doesn't make them equal.



#49915: coturnix — 11/20  at  04:27 PM
As Lakoff points out:

From sociological or political perspectives, there seem to be dozens, if not hundreds, of types of liberals and progressives. But from a cognitive perspective, defined by modes of thought, there are just six:

1. Socio-economic: All issues are a matter of money and class.
2. Identity Politics: Our group deserves its share now.
3. Environmentalists: Respect for the earth and a healthy future.
4. Civil Libertarians: Freedoms are threatened and have to be protected.
5. Spiritual progressives: Religion and spirituality nurture us and are central to a fulfilling life.
6. Anti-authoritarians: We have to fight the illegitimate use of authority.


There are similar categories among conservatives. Different folks have different priorities. Falwell does not talk about Iraq, Rumsfeld does not talk about God, and neither vocies an opinion on the problem of urban sprawl. Both raise their spoons themselves, and both choose the plumber who, due to training and experience, can use proper tool to fix a leaky toilet without prayers, chants, incantations and incense.

Blogwhore aert! I have written more about this before, look at the last image in that post.



#49916: — 11/20  at  04:57 PM
Seems to me that what is most appalling about the "Unnatural" perspective is the pride with which so many adopt it. Remember a Bush administration insider's derisive dismissal of "the reality-based community"? Gah!

If I had a single magical power, I would force every one of these idiots to be consistent. Think about how great that would be! As the price for dismissing trivialities like evidence, reason and expertise - even once, even in a small matter such as whether or not to invade another country and kill tens of thousands of civilians - my magical curse would force the willful rejecter of evidence and reason to LIVE WITHOUT IT AT ALL TIMES!

"Sorry pal. You left the reality-based community. From now on, if your car breaks down you have to pray over it. When that fails, you will have to decide by sheer force of will that the car does work and ignore all evidence to the contrary - even if that means telling yourself obvious lies like, 'Well, I wanted to walk 10 miles in the rain anyway.' Have a heart condition? Well, you can pray, or you can visit an acupuncturist. But the one thing you cannot do is seek the help of a highly trained physician educated in the tradition evidence-based medicine: Those men and women only work for the members of the reality-based community, and you refuse to pay your dues. And so on with every other aspect of your everyday life. Forever."

I bet none of these asshats would last a week under that curse.



#49917: — 11/20  at  04:57 PM
coturnix wrote:
You can put people on a graph ranging from 0 (using unnatural explanations 100% of the time) and 100 (using natural explanation 100% of the time). That's a bar graph, not a line graph. In other words, there will be 100 bins (or whichever way you decide to break it down), sharply separated from each other, not a smooth line.


No, it will be a scatter plot, and it's representing a continouos distribution. The discretisation is an artifact of the finite sample set.

You can bin anything, even true continua like real numbers, but it's questionable if you will gain any insight from it. Even if the trait is truly binary, and applied in a patchwork, the overall average will be continuous since patch sizes are not modular. I think your distinctions obscure more than they enlighten, regardless of how correct they are.



#49919: — 11/20  at  04:59 PM
Burt Humburg: If I could change one thing in society, it would be the idea that non-scientific is synonymous with unimportant or wrong.

I agree. I tend to see religions as metaphors for living, and get disturbed only when pronouncements are rigidly literal, or when I am expected to adhere to absolute Truth. I know quite a few people who don't quite profess belief in God, but do make statements such as "everything happens for a reason". To this I say yes, but usually the reason has nothing whatsoever to do with me even if it has a significant effect on me. I do not believe that there is an entity out there who is interested in me personally and arranges the world accordingly. And yet, I either make something positive of what happens to me, or not, which is not so distant in spirit. "God cares" transforms easily into "what we do matters". Coyne's God as encouraging parent is vastly different from a fundamentalist's God as rewarding or punishing dictator, and becomes a model for human behavior. We need ways to talk about stuff. Religious imagery is one way.

Rob Stowell: Yes!



#49926: Linkmeister — 11/20  at  05:44 PM
You could use this guy as a mascot, although royalties to Crumb might be a little steep.



#49934: — 11/20  at  06:00 PM
I prefer the distinction between understanding and superstition.

Religion can fall into either category, but nobody (who isn't supporting a superstition, anyway) has a problem with Ken Miller's religious search for understanding, only the superstition of Pat Robertson.

It is superstition when you allow your faith to trump evidence.
It is understanding when you allow evidence to inform and shape your faith.



#49935: — 11/20  at  06:05 PM
Bravo... This is huge. This piece of philosophy is a concept that feels familiar, but was never as concrete for me as it is now. Perfectly crafted. Thank you.



#49940: — 11/20  at  06:18 PM
You left the reality-based community.
"You are now leaving the reality-based community" (or entering it) would make a good road sign somewhere. It would also be a good sort of mental health warning to stick up outside churches etc.



#49942: — 11/20  at  06:21 PM
Aren't the words "essentialist" and "existentialist" applicable to this dichotomy without inventing words where the dichotomy isn't as pretty as it looks, and the word "unnatural" has an unbeleivably negative connotation?



#49943: — 11/20  at  06:22 PM
My kids coined a very apt term: We're Proveiters because we respond to each assertion by saying, "Prove it."



#49945: Geoffrey Brent — 11/20  at  06:40 PM
These are people who are committed to reason, empiricism, and natural evidence—those who believe in the complete (or near complete) significance of the real world, the universe, all matter, energy, and laws of science to our lives.


What about those like me who accept the above, but also consider things like intuition to be useful operating principles in some circumstances? There are times when fully reasoning a problem out is just too complex a path to be useful, and 'gut feelings' are more useful despite their known fallibility.

Where intuition etc. conflict with the conclusions of evidence and reason, the latter take precedence, but the former can sometimes be useful for filling in the gaps if they're used carefully and understood to be fallible.



#49951: Kieran — 11/20  at  07:25 PM
Oh no! Please, not the brights again! This is not a winning approach.



#49954: — 11/20  at  07:36 PM
This is a very important distinction. One of my favorite political books is Thomas Sowell's "The Vision of the Anointed"; though I disagree with many of the specific arguments, the general thesis -- that a political group, however well-meaning, can guarantee the failure of its policies simply by ignoring the feedback of evidence from the real world -- neatly describes the catastrophe that is our nation's leadership today. When people ask me why I've shifted to the political left in the past twenty years, I describe this book and ask "Can you imagine a political book with that title and thesis today as leaning Republican?"



#49960: — 11/20  at  07:46 PM
Well, if we can't be "brights" can they be "Know-Nothings" at least?



#49962: — 11/20  at  07:56 PM
Declaring that actual reasons and evidence should trump mere inclination to believe something does not require ignoring emotion or intuition: That sort of conclusion stems from a false dichotomy between reason and emotion grounded in very ancient (and wrong-headed) notions about some dichotomy or competition between our "human" and "animal" (higher/lower, noble/base) natures. I don't see any way in which PZ relies on or reifies that false dichotomy here.

Besides, there are good evidence-driven reasons for taking many of our intuitions seriously as a source of knowledge about some matters - especially about our fellow humans. The human ability to perceive lots and lots of information about each other on a level well below explicit awareness and reasoning - picking up on body language and subtle vocal cues to understand the emotions, intentions, and even beliefs of others - is very well documented. The failure of intuitions useful for perceiving and evaluating the actions of other humans when applied to non-human animals or the non-living world (attributing intentionality to the weather or other probabilistic events, for example) is also well documented.

But the empirical reliability of our intuitions aside, I would say that emotions and intuitions are amenable to a "Natural" approach even aside from the science. We can and do critically evaluate our own (and others') emotions all the time without any question of empirical evidence really being involved at all, e.g.: "Why did I get so angry about such a trivial offense? Was I really reacting to something else she did?" Critical reflection is missing from the "Unnatural" approach to feelings just as much as it's missing from the "Unnatural" approach to claims about the world.

Perhaps what is really at issue here more than anything else is FALLIBILISM. The Natural approach to any aspect of my life allows that I could be wrong, and that I should take precautions against error: I could be mistaken in my beliefs, so I should carefully consider all the evidence, arguments and objections - and be prepared to change my belief based on new evidence and arguments. I could be mistaken in my values, so I should reason and reflect on them frequently, should critically consider their sources, and be respectful of others' values within reasonable limits. My intuitions about someone's poor character or motivation might be wrong, so even if I'm suspicious of them I should give them the benefit of a doubt - until I have more concrete evidence to go on than intuition. My positive and negative feelings about others may spring from all sorts of sources, including unjustified biases I've absorbed from my upbringing/culture, and I should not uncritically or unreflectively act from such feelings. And so on and so forth.

In contrast, the Unnatural approach assumes always that I'm right, period, end of story. My belief is true, so I need only look for evidence and arguments that confirm it, and I can reject out of hand any contrary evidence or other objections, and I certainly don't need to take precautions against possible error. My values are the only proper values for anyone to have, so I am justified in acting on them without hesitation and imposing them on everyone else without consideration of their objections. My anger is always justified and righteous, and any other emotional reaction I have is wholly justified and *should* motivate my actions. If I'm repelled by your difference, that's because it's bad to be different from me in that way - you sick pervert. And so on, ad nauseum.

All of which goes beyond PZ's Natural vs. Unnatural dichotomy while being completely consistent with it. Call it the Fallibilism vs. True Belief dichotomy, perhaps. And yes, I do think that the rejection of fallibilism and embrace of true belief in its stead is always and wholly a bad thing. As a dedicated fallibilist who tries to apply the approach in all aspects of my life, I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise. But I have a pretty friggin' huge mountain of evidence demonstrating the perils of the True Belief approach to life, so it would take a heckuva lot to persuade me.



#49964: — 11/20  at  08:07 PM
Can we bring Mr Natural out of retirement to be our mascot? I liked him a lot when he was at Zap Comics.



#49967: decrepitoldfool — 11/20  at  08:43 PM
Will Rogers reportedly said; "The world is divided into two groups: those who divide the world into two groups, and those who don't."

Guess you're in the former group, PZ



Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 >

Next entry: Thump

Previous entry: An example of evolution's practical utility

<< Back to main

Info

email PZ Myers
Search
Archives
UMM—America's best public liberal arts college