#21887: — 04/14  at  07:27 AM
Nelson says: "I really like Paul Myers, whatever he may think of me. Anyone who, like PZ, can write “sweetums” about a beautiful big dark-eyed cephalopod knows what biology is all about in the end –- being crazy moonstruck in love with living things and their endlessly fascinating details."

Isn't that so sweet of him? Now he's the open-minded scientist who doesn't call people names. In doing this, he tries to pull himself up to the level of a real scientist (i.e., he loves these creatures too, look! He's a true scientist because he shares with you, PZ, what is essential to science - love for the subject matter; he just *loves* being questioned and made to think; and so on.).

He is, he says, a true scientist who deserves your respect, and he's willing to look indulgently upon your juvenile excesses (like name-calling), in the interest of science.

Quite a classic ploy, isn't it? When you don't have the facts and arguments on your side, create a flattering *narrative* that will cast you in a good light ("framing", I think Lakoff calls it).

The little shit doesn't bother to argue with facts; instead he *frames*.

#21889: — 04/14  at  08:04 AM
By following the links, I see that Paul has offered to make his PowerPoint display available to anyone who wants to look at it.

What is it with creationist wackos and PowerPoint? Is it some sort of substitution process for actual thought?

#21893: — 04/14  at  08:43 AM
If any of you are in the Boston area, the Federalist Society is hosting a debate at Harvard Law School between Francis Beckwith and Jay Wexler about the constitutionality of teaching ID in public schools. It's tomorrow, April 15, at 4:30 in Hauser 102.

#21903: — 04/14  at  10:37 AM
Heater, in politics I the rule is that it isn't what you say about the issues, it's what the issues say about you. Which is why so much money is spent making some issues more important than others. The key is to never, ever let people get away with such attempts at framing, but to keep asking the obvious and essential questions about the matter at hand as you're doing. Thanks!

#21905: — 04/14  at  10:39 AM
I liked the whine about PZ's name-calling, coupled with the claim to be above such petty issues. Sounds like an IDist.

#21919: — 04/14  at  11:56 AM
Wow. He makes himself sound so benign.

Still better to cut Design drivel out of the *scientific* community, and out of the classroom. I've no problem sticking ID where it belongs: in churches and other places that discourage independent thought.

#21928: ajmilne — 04/14  at  12:42 PM
What is it with creationist wackos and PowerPoint? Is it some sort of substitution process for actual thought?

Pretty much. See http://wired-vig.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/ppt2.html -- and http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/powerpoint -- for starters.

#21939: — 04/14  at  01:21 PM
Consider first this excellent paper from MIT: "Rooter: A Methodology for the Typical Unification of Access Points and Redundancy" and after reading the paper go to here.

I would think this kind of thing might turn valuable in time to run down the walking hordes of zomb... eh, people, who spew the creationist bile. I mean: "The forest answers as it is called." (transliteration).

#21984: — 04/14  at  05:40 PM
Memo to Paul. 99 slides in a talk is at least 50 too many. for a non-specialsit audience, it's probably 80 too many.

Trackback: Paul Nelson had a nice time at UMM, but needs a lesson in the power of time Tracked on: I am ... unhindered by talent (216.35.197.11) at 2005 04 14 11:06:57
Turns out that Paul Nelson has written on his blog about his visit to UMM. I continue to be amazed at how damned pleasant he is about all this. The guy looked pretty exhausted to me at the end, and while I love a good intellectual tussle as much as...

#22018: — 04/14  at  10:35 PM
Maybe it's just me, but when I downloaded the ppt file, the pix of some guy are corrupted...hmm, now, who could it be?
Could it be ...[echo chamber] DARWIN? [/echo chamber]

#22122: — 04/16  at  09:49 AM
PZ, I looked at Paul Nelson's response and if its true you referred to the Discovery Institute and its fellows as "People of the Lie," that is both brilliant and really funny (not to mention spot on). As for the other names Nelson says you called the Discovery Institute, I'm amazed you've been so nice.

#22123: PZ Myers — 04/16  at  09:55 AM
Nelson was accurate about that -- I do call creationists lots of names. And you are also correct that I tend to be far too generous.