#27688: Joe_Thomas — 06/08  at  08:44 AM
I'm a former Okie. This story doesn't surprise me, although I would have guessed Oklahoma City doing it before Tulsa. As angry as true scientists would be at this nonsensical display in a zoo, I can only imagine the feral outrage coursing through the parishes in the City since they didn't think of it first.

Personally, I don't think the Tulsans are taking their faith far enough. If they truly want to demonstrate the awesome power of creationism ID, I would challenge them to pair up all the dfferent animals in the zoo, one male and one female, and keep them all in the same pen, thus recreating one of the more spectacular events of religious history.

Of course, to make it as accurate a re-creation as possible, they would need to include a human family in the pen as well.

I know I'd buy a ticket.

#27689: judgeMC — 06/08  at  09:03 AM
They could want to add this on to the zoo.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/walkthrough/

#27690: — 06/08  at  09:28 AM
They could want to add this on to the zoo.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/walkthrough/

I think the only appropriate response is... OMFG!

#27692: Ereshkigal — 06/08  at  09:48 AM
I was at the meeting and was allotted three minutes (as were all other speakers after the initial presentation) to argue against the proposal. I was asked to attend by members of the Interfaith Alliance (understandably opposed) and to speak to the legal issues involved.

Three minutes is insufficient time to identify the legal issues, or to make a sensible argument for either side. Geologists, clergy in opposition, biologists-- all of us subject to the same procrustean format, with no attempt to balance the numbers of speakers or their credentials.

It may be superfluous to note here that our mayor was never in danger of being named valedictorian of his class.


Last week I mentioned that I would attend the meeting. I hope to have time to post a blog entry later today or tomorrow describing the sorry mess.

#27693: Prince Vegita — 06/08  at  09:48 AM
Any phone numbers? I'd like to call the board and make a few requests for the exhibit. :D

#27694: — 06/08  at  09:55 AM
I seem to recall that Tulsa is Oral Roberts domain. Maybe his family would agree to be the subjects of Joe's exhibit (#2).

#27695: — 06/08  at  10:10 AM
Well, hell, let's be broad-minded about this: if zoo funds are being expended for this venture and if the zoo is a public one, they should be required to put up as many creation displays as requested by any tax-paying Oklahomans. Surely there are a few local Native American groups who could get in on the act, and I have no doubt somewhere in Tulsa we could cough up a Hindu, a Parsi, a Wiccan....and who's to say it has to be a widely-accepted belief, for that matter? Mebbe Stan Lee created us all before he created Marvel Comics; maybe James Brown was the Omnipotent Godfather before incorporating as the Godfather of Soul - both have great display possibilities. Here in Philadelphia, we had a dude a while back who thought a TV weatherman was God, and stalked him relentlessly: way cool! C'mon, let's get a little creative here!

#27696: Karena — 06/08  at  10:10 AM
This is just plain stupid. I read they were putting that shit up at the Grand Canyon too. Why all the insanity about Creationism? What does this mean and where does it lead? There has got to be a finacial angle, so what is it? I better go ponder for a while.

#27697: — 06/08  at  10:11 AM
It looks like the creationists are pursuing a policy of making this ID stuff so prevalent
that it becomes a part of the culture, that once a subculture reaches a "critical mass",
so to speak, that humans have a tendancy to view the prevalence of a group's beliefs
as evidence in itself. Does anybody think that pro-evolution groups should be looking
more into how mass-marketing techniques are used to "sell" ideas and how they can
be countered (Robert Cialdini's stuff etc.) I ran across a interesting website,
ChangingMinds.org. Seems to be a huge repository of marketing and influence techniques:

http://changingminds.org/

Interesting page on Informational Social Influence (the social proof phenemonon)-
sounds like a ID campaign!

http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/informational_social_influence.htm

Trackback: Definitely not OK Tracked on: white pebble (64.202.165.131) at 2005 06 08 08:40:59
It always astounds me: the number of people who have a need, beyond all proper reason, to stick to a primitive myth in the face of the modern age. Got an essay percolating in my mind about this… Pharyngula::Oklahoma is not OK Following a vote b...

Trackback: Creationism at the Oklahoma Zoo Tracked on: Abnormal Interests (64.81.36.251) at 2005 06 08 09:07:11
Here is the heart of the story as reported on KOKI, the Tulsa Fox affiliate. The Tulsa Park and Recreation Board voted 3-to-1 to display the exhibit on creationism despite opposition from zoo employees, religious leaders and others who say...

Trackback: Using Wedge issues for profit Tracked on: Aimlessly wandering.... (72.9.234.70) at 2005 06 08 09:50:18
Damn conservative Christians are at it again. In Oklahoma (from KOKI Fox 23 website): The Tulsa Zoo will display the biblical version of the Earth's creation in an exhibit at the zoo. The Tulsa Park and Recreation Board voted 3-to-1 to disp...

#27698: — 06/08  at  10:11 AM

http://pharyngula.org/index?URL=http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/walkthrough/

What the hell..? I read an interview by dawkins, and he responded to the question about 'America going the wrong way', or being taken in by the creationists. Said it was temporary and I really hope so, this is getting absurd.

The best way to fight it is with education, but with schools in the sink holes... its no wonder this is so popular.

#27699: PSoTD — 06/08  at  10:11 AM
I have a project for Christo. In the middle of the Bible belt, a huge display in a large park of Conservatives being taken to heaven in the Rapture.

#27701: — 06/08  at  11:01 AM
People who post long URLs need to visit the tinyurl website. It's easy! And the result is a short URL that you can insert into a comment without busting margins or causing disruptive word-wrapping. Check it out here:

tinyurl.com

You'll be glad you did!

#27702: Ken Cope — 06/08  at  11:19 AM
tinyurl.com is great, or format your long url:

[a href="http://longurl.com"] convenient phrase[/a]

being sure to replace each [ with < and ] with >

making "convenient phrase" hot, linking to your unwieldy url.

convenient phrase

#27704: Thomas Wilburn — 06/08  at  11:40 AM
From the Creationist Zoo: "When God clothed Adam and Eve, it required the first animal death, a picture of the promised Lamb of God."

What, God can't run a pair of shears?

#27712: bill — 06/08  at  12:55 PM
I've been to the Tulsa zoo and have pictures of my kids standing in a line in front of Ganesha with their arms held out like a Hindu deity. Lots of other, presumably Christian, kids were being photographed doing the same thing. I don't recall ever seeing anybody shocked or horrified by Ganesha. It's a very nice carving and kids think it's funny.

From a Hindu site is the following about Ganesha: He is the Lord of success and destroyer of evils and obstacles. He is also worshipped as the god of education, knowledge, wisdom and wealth.

The irony is almost too much!

#27714: — 06/08  at  01:01 PM
Well, shoot, if they're gonna put up Creation stories, I want the kiddies to see the one where a brother and a sister make the beast with two backs, producing the Goddess who then creates the rest of the world and also is the great, great . . . great grandmother of the Emperor of Japan.

That'd be cool.

(Magic word today is 'hell,' where we are all going. It'd be better'n Oklahoma.)

#27717: — 06/08  at  01:14 PM
Somehow, <a href="http://www.errantstory.com/d/20030827.html">this</a< comic strip seems relevant.

#27729: — 06/08  at  02:18 PM

What, God can't run a pair of shears?

Thomas- where would He plug it in, silly?

#27746: — 06/08  at  03:58 PM
So how long before the Tulsa Zoo builds a display on the Raelian creation myth?

#27751: — 06/08  at  04:04 PM
The Associated Press has picked up the story, see Biblical Account of Creation Displayed:

TULSA, Okla. (AP) -- The Tulsa Zoo will add a display featuring the biblical
account of creation following complaints to a city board about other displays
with religious significance, including a Hindu elephant statue.

The Tulsa Park and Recreation Board voted 3-1 on Tuesday in favor of a display
depicting God's creation of the world in six days and his rest on the seventh,
as told in Genesis, the first book of the Bible.

The vote came after more than two hours of public comment from a
standing-room-only crowd.

Zoo employees, religious leaders and others spoke in opposition, saying religion
shouldn't be part of the taxpayer-funded scientific institution.

#27757: judgeMC — 06/08  at  04:37 PM
to Ken and Tony

Thank you for the help. I'm rather new at this.

#27773: — 06/08  at  06:20 PM
Desert Donkey wrote:

I seem to recall that Tulsa is Oral Roberts domain.

Whoah, let's not over-generalize. ORU is Oral Robert's domain, but the city itself is not. The University of Tulsa is the closest thing to a bastion of rationality and progressive thought that Oklahoma has, for example.

Joe_Thomas--I'd agree, but I don't think the OKC zoo would stand for it. I don't know if you've been since they renovated the ape area, but the posted information discussed evolution very positively. They seem fairy concerned with good science now.