Pharyngula

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Monday, October 24, 2005

Open Thread

I saw The Corpse Bride this weekend—a fun movie, but is anyone else getting more than a little tired of Danny Elfman scores? They all sound the same, they're noodly and irritating to the point of distraction, and you forget them immediately after you've heard them.

They're so forgettable that it would be excusable if you chose to talk about anything other than Elfman.


Trackback url: http://pharyngula.org/index/trackback/3211/62ML3Lbf/

Comments:
#45159: Bughunter — 10/24  at  05:55 AM
See Dear Wendy... much more interesting movie. You might still be able to catch it at our film festival, if you have a spare air ticket to Bergen lying around.



#45160: Matt McIrvin — 10/24  at  06:17 AM
I think Elfman (and Tim Burton) did some great work early on, but Elfman's just been repeating himself for the past ten or fifteen years, and Burton's getting there too. His Charlie and the Chocolate Factory remake was better than I expected, but with Corpse Bride it's starting to feel disturbingly like Extruded Tim Burton Product.



#45161: Matt McIrvin — 10/24  at  06:18 AM
...Actually, Elfman did a pretty good job with the Roald Dahl songs in Charlie, come to think of it. Maybe the constraint of having to work with the existing lyrics put him out of the box a little.



#45162: just john — 10/24  at  06:18 AM
Hey, has anybody given much thought to designing courses to preemptively fight some of creationism's sillier claims?

For instance: "Irreducible complexity" is a term that they throw around, and to me it indicates a pretty foggy notion of complexity. Also, it seems to imply a belief in some sort of conservation of complexity.

So for you educators out there, this sounds like an opportunity to put together a package of complexity studies and course material. (A great excuse to break out those fractal generators!)

(Yes, I'm aware professional creationism pushers discard any part of their argument once that part becomes useless to them. But this stuff would be worth teaching on its own merits.)



#45163: — 10/24  at  06:35 AM
Saw it last night as well. I enjoyed it but it suffers terribly in comparison to Wallace and Gromit and the Curse of the Were-rabbit which is pure genius. The Elfman score was a little annoying although the homage to New Orleans was good.



#45169: Jonathan Badger — 10/24  at  07:33 AM
I haven't seen "The Corpse Bride", or "Charlie", or any recent Elfman/Burton movie, but I find I keep returning to the "Edward Scissorhands" soundtrack on my iPod. Do you like early Elfman soundtracks?



#45170: icecube — 10/24  at  07:43 AM
I just saw it last night; the corpse bride feels more like an overextended short. The music is rather forgettable. The Nightmare before christmas was far more fantastic & cooler than this. Actually, compounded with C&tCF I'm getting a little bit jaded with Burton (though Big Fish was a break from the mold (though Nyman did the scoring for that smile ) ). Still though, it was mildly enjoyable I found. Just not Fantastic.

Elfman's ambient music is getting a bit repetitive; I thought the intro music to C&tCF was really exciting. But everyone else I spoke to thought it sounded just like the batman intro (which was amazing).

The Aristocrats is a *fantastic* movie though. Can't imagine what the fundies have to say about it though heh.



#45173: amk — 10/24  at  08:15 AM
icecube: No, Elfman did the music for "Big Fish", too. Trust me, I'm a rabid Michael Nyman fanboy, and I would have noticed. "Ed Wood" is one of the rare Tim Burton films without Elfman, and it was scored by Howard Shore.

It's possible that Nyman was commissioned to write a score, which was then discarded in favour of Elfman's; that happened on the film "Practical Magic", for example.



#45176: Keith — 10/24  at  08:27 AM
I agree with icecube. The Corpse Bride should have been a short and would have been if you took out the superfluous musical numbers. It was well done but a bit of a disapointment, the story was just too thin to suppor thte weight of it's meager 75 minutes. I did greatly enjoy Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, though and really have a soft spot for the early Burton/Elfman works like Edward Scissorhands and Beetlejuice. But they've both been hit or miss for th elast ten years or so. Ever Since Mars Attacks, really.



#45180: — 10/24  at  09:16 AM
Elfman's done a lot of stuff that sounds nothing like his more famous Batman/Simpsons/etc work. It seems that only when he's working with Burton does he do all the fussy stuff.

And there's no denying that Oingo Boingo was cool.



#45186: — 10/24  at  10:06 AM
Wingnut alert:

Christian group wants to 'redeem' US states

CHARLESTON, South Carolina (Reuters) - Cory Burnell wants to set up a Christian nation within the United States where abortion is illegal, gay marriage is banned, schools cannot teach evolution, children can pray to Jesus in public schools and the Ten Commandments are posted publicly.
...



#45188: — 10/24  at  10:13 AM

...
State Sen. Mike Fair, a Republican who described himself as "a narrow-minded, right-wing, fundamentalist fanatic," said he was suspicious of Christian Exodus.
...

Too wingnut for the wingnuts.



#45190: — 10/24  at  10:19 AM
Galapagos tortoises unhurt by volcanic lava

QUITO, Ecuador (Reuters) - A volcanic eruption on the Galapagos Islands has sent scorching lava pouring seawards but giant tortoises which helped inspired the theory of evolution are safe, island authorities said on Sunday.
...

It's a miracle!



#45191: TH Huxley — 10/24  at  10:43 AM
An Open Letter to Samuel Chen on Dover

Well, sorry, young and vital Mr. Chen, that evolution is inadequate to explain the Big Bang. Not exactly within its purview. Keep inquiring, and someday you'll get it....



#45193: Alon Levy — 10/24  at  10:51 AM
Your first link doesn't work, Baseyian Bouffant.



#45195: Jim Anderson — 10/24  at  10:55 AM
For the brilliant Simpsons theme, Elfman can be forgiven a multitude of sins.



#45204: icecube — 10/24  at  11:37 AM
amk oops! yeah I was thinking of Good Will Hunting (I have a MD with both the soundtracks mangled up). Certainly that was a break from his super-hero style.



#45212: — 10/24  at  11:57 AM
Casey Luskin, program officer with public policy and legal affairs at the Center for Science and Culture at the Discovery Institute, said the idea is relatively new and needs to be debated among scientists, not made into a policy.


Wow, what a bald-faced liar.

The idea of inferring a mysterious intelligence behind things that appear to be "purposefully designed" predates Darwin. The idea is as old as the human brain, which has imagined that deities were responsible for just about every interesting event that ever occurred.

And the the merits of "intelligent design" have been debated to death. Scientists have concluded nearly unanimously that it's pure garbage in terms of its scientific utility. And those "scientists" who disagree are, almost to a person, lying charlatans who self-identify as Christians. Sort of like you, Casey, except you're not really a scientist. More like a half-assed geology flunkie.

<blockout>Haynes said he doubts the judge has heard enough information about intelligent design to rule on whether it’s a science.</blockquote>

Hardy-har. Nice try, Haynes, you stupid lying idiot. The judge has heard more than enough. He got to watch one of the "premier" fake scientists in this political game -- aka Michael Behe -- get his soiled diapers pulled down to his ankles. A bad day for Behe but a great day for the scientists, especially the Catholic scientists, whom Behe smears as a professional courtesy to his script-writers at the Discovery Institute.

Regardless of the decision, Luskin said the Discovery Institute wouldn’t change how it discusses intelligent design.

For example, if the judge rules the board had a non-secular purpose in approving the intelligent design statement, “That just means that Dover did not use a scientific purpose,” Luskin said. “It wouldn’t be a general thing for all school boards around the country.”


Tell us, Lyin' Luskin: what is the scientific purpose behind misrepresenting the work of scientists and their conclusions? Why is it that only self-identifying conservative Christians in this country feel compelled to take their "scientific" theories and criticism of scientists to public school boards, rather than to the scientists themselves or to their representatives who fund scientists?

Can you answer that question, Lying Luskin? Can you answer it honestly?

I know you can't, but it is fun to pretend that you can and rub this Dover debacle in your fake Christian face -- the face of a professional liar and a genuine coward.

ANY TIME YOU WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN A DEBATE RE DISCOVERY INSTITUTE LIES, LUSKIN, LET ME KNOW.

You need only state your willingness here and I'll set it up. I won't hold my breath. God forbid you'd actually have to defend your employer and your weasel lifestyle in a public forum. Or should I say: your script-writers forbid you to do that. If God exists, why would he want anything to do with dishonest professional smear campaigners like you?

The institute believes it’s possible to teach intelligent design without violating the establishment clause because it maintains that intelligent design is not a religious concept.

A ruling would affect districts within the governance of the U.S. Middle District Court in Pennsylvania, but Luskin said a higher-court ruling would be needed for wider effect. Thompson has said he would like to take the case to the U.S. Supreme Court.

“If (Jones) did rule that it was generally unconstitutional, I’m sure we would like to see a better ruling at a higher level, so we would like to see an appeal to that decision,” Luskin said.


Bring it on, Luskin, you pitiful skunk.

How is it possible that a non-lawyer is hired to act as a mouthpiece on legal issues for a nationally recognized conservative thinktank?

Oh yeah: any self-identifying Christian willing to lie for some pocket change will suffice. That's you, Luskin: in spades.



#45214: — 10/24  at  11:57 AM
Alon,

To answer your questions about the Rh- allele: Yes, higher in the Basque and Spain; Also, while Europe was settled by Indo-Europeans after the rise of agriculture, they did not completely replace the original (Rh-) Europeans. What's unique about groups claiming "original European" status, like the Baques, is that they have very little genetic contribution from Indo-Europeans.

A link.



#45221: — 10/24  at  01:06 PM
OK, here's the same article at Reuters:
Christian group wants to 'redeem' US states

By Harriet McLeod

CHARLESTON, South Carolina (Reuters) - Cory Burnell wants to set up a Christian nation within the United States where abortion is illegal, gay marriage is banned, schools cannot teach evolution, children can pray to Jesus in public schools and the Ten Commandments are posted publicly.

To that end, Burnell, 29, left the Republican Party, moved from California and founded Christian Exodus two years ago with the goal of redirecting the United States by "redeeming" one state at a time.

First up for redemption is South Carolina.

Burnell hopes to move 2,500 Christians into the northern part of the state by next year and to persuade tens of thousands to relocate by 2016. His goal is to fill the state legislature with "Christian constitutionalists."

The push comes at a time when Christian fundamentalism is a growing force in U.S. politics, displays of the Ten Commandments in government buildings are spurring litigation and President George W. Bush is touting the evangelical Christian credentials of Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers.

Christian Exodus officially started in May 2004, reaching people mainly through the Internet. Since then, five families and two individuals have relocated to South Carolina, Burnell said.

The organization, which claims about 1,000 members, held its first conference October 15-16 to promote its agenda. About 50 people from as far away as Ohio and Oregon attended.

Burnell picked South Carolina partly for its Christian majority and conservative politics.

"Historically, Southerners do have a states' rights mentality," he said. "Christians in the North are experiencing the most liberalism, or you could say persecution."

Christian Exodus hopes to throw off what it considers unconstitutional burdens imposed by the federal government. Examples, Burnell said, are federal spending on public education and the National Endowment for the Arts, and the use of the courts "to teach that Heather has two mommies."

"We (want to) force Washington, D.C., to reform itself by not going along with it," he said.

The organization's Web site says if it does not meet its goal of change, it will work to secede from the United States.

South Carolina was the first state to secede from the union in 1860, and the first shots of the U.S. Civil War were fired from Charleston's Battery onto Fort Sumter.

The group's reception in South Carolina has been mixed.

Arthur Bryngelson, chairman of the Dorchester County Republican Party, spoke at a Christian Exodus' conference and said he would encourage Christian Exodus members to become Republicans.

"I consider myself to be a fundamental Christian," he said. "I'm with (Christian Exodus) all the way up to secession. ... I'm not in favor of going down to the Battery and firing on Fort Sumter again."

State Sen. Mike Fair, a Republican who described himself as "a narrow-minded, right-wing, fundamentalist fanatic," said he was suspicious of Christian Exodus.

"I had huge credibility problems with them," he said. "Their plank for this perceived buckle of the Bible Belt, they're so far off the mark. I don't think they're going to get much traction."

Joel Sawyer, spokesman for Republican Gov. Mark Sanford, would not comment except to say, "We have a great state with a great quality of life that's certainly open to anyone."

Columbia attorney Herbert E. Buhl III, who does legal work for the American Civil Liberties Union, said he received "a nasty little letter ... calling me a liar" from a Christian Exodus representative.

Buhl said the letter came after he had represented Wiccan Darla Wynne, who successfully sued the town of Great Falls to remove the name of Jesus Christ from pre-meeting prayers. The 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals agreed in 2004 with a federal judge that the town's prayers were an unconstitutional endorsement of religion by government.

"This should be a nonissue," Buhl said. "It's separation of church and state. This is black-letter law."



#45223: — 10/24  at  01:18 PM
The York Daily Record is running an article about what various people think will happen after the Kitzmiller v. Dover decision. Here's cousel for the defense, Richard Thompson of the Thomas More Law Center, the Sword and Shield for People of Faith


“If Dover wins, you will see an increase in the number of school districts to take up intelligent design,” Thompson said. “If Dover School District loses, you will continue to see intelligent design proposed throughout the country. You have more and more scientists agreeing to its scientific basis.”

Ha ha ha.



#45224: — 10/24  at  01:24 PM
Defense witness Steve Fuller testifies

Evolutionary theory is a monolith of ideas that excludes other concepts from competing on a level playing field, Steve Fuller testified this morning in U.S. Middle District Court in Harrisburg. Fuller is a sociology professor from the University of Warwick in England.

A monolith? So the change of life over time, common descent, natural selection, the genetics that makes mutation happen, the detailed mathematical explanations of gene frequency in population biology all constitute a monolith?

And because the scientific community shuts the door on radical views, intelligent design needs to cultivate a new generation of recruits, said Fuller, an expert in the philosophy of science.

Testifying on behalf of the Dover Area School District’s decision to make students aware of intelligent design, Fuller said the concept’s chief supporters “can’t spontaneously generate a following” unless they get it in the schools first.

Fuller will be cross-examined this afternoon.

It's like that radical theory of plate tectonics. No one ever accepted that until it was taught in K-12 science classes. Right?

The plaintiff's attourneys have been excellent so far. I do hope the relative obscurity of the current witness will not impede their preparedness. It appears his ideas should be easy enough to shoot full of holes.



#45225: — 10/24  at  01:28 PM
State Sen. Mike Fair, a Republican who described himself as "a narrow-minded, right-wing, fundamentalist fanatic," said he was suspicious of Christian Exodus.


I've always said that Senator Fair was a narrow-minded right-wing fundie fanatic. At last, we have found something we can agree on.

If only the lying fundie shills employed by the Disclaimery Institute were so forthcoming. But I guess they have to appeal to fundie freaks in blue states, too, who have learned that sharing a bigoted religious mindset with the Taliban doesn't get you very far.



#45226: — 10/24  at  01:45 PM
It's like that radical theory of plate tectonics. No one ever accepted that until it was taught in K-12 science classes. Right?

Heh. Good one, B.B.

The lying idiots at the Thomas More Center for Bullshit had to go all the way to England to find some half-assed sociology professor willing to peddle their baloney?

Wow, that is PATHETIC.

But I really want to see this Dick Carpenter freak on the stand. I bet when they turn the gas on his lying butt that he emits a nice bacon smell. Check out this site, dedicated to ensuring that narrow-minded rightwing fundie fanatics remain coddled all the way through college:

http://www.boundless.org/2001/features/a0000551.html

Yes, folks, brainwashing is alive and well. Here's Tricky Dick Carpenter citing a creationist tract for the definition of every fundie's favorite term, "worldview":

[W]orldview is how people see everything around them.

Really? I thought it had something to do with these organs in the human head called "eyes."

It’s the lens they look through as they take in and classify reality.

Really? I thought humans used this thing in their heads called a "brain" to classify and make sense of the things they observe with their eyes.

It’s what dictates their decisions ...

Huh. So it's my "worldview" that makes me look for a source of fresh water when I'm thirsty. All this time I thought it was my brain.

But that means that Tricky Dick and I have the same "worldview."

So why is Tricky Dick a lying idiot when it comes to characterizing the work of scientists?

I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that he's chosen to be a fanatic fundie who enjoys smearing scientists and practicing anti-gay bigotry.

Maybe we'll find out when he's cross-examined.

I can't wait.



#45228: — 10/24  at  01:56 PM
From the testimony of Steve Fuller (of Crap than sociologists in the USA):

And because the scientific community shuts the door on radical views, intelligent design needs to cultivate a new generation of recruits

Um ... no Steve. The door to the ongoing party being thrown by the scientific community remains wide open for anyone who has interesting and useful ideas.

What happened here is that Phil Johnson showed up wasted, vomited on the floor, told a bunch of lies about scientists and AIDS, bragged about "turning the train around" and establishing a Christian theocracy, then passed out on the couch and soiled himself.

Then, after we rolled Phil off the cushions and showed his fellow gang-members the poopstain in the shape of a crucifix, they denied that they were fundy fanatics trying to establish a theocracy.

That was years ago, Steve. But how the hell would you know?

You're just a two-bit sociology "professor" in England who peddles Christian apologist bullshit on the side.



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