Pharyngula

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Tuesday, March 29, 2005

PBS and the 'debate'

PBS had a special newshour on the science and creation "debate"—which I completely missed, but a transcript is available. It has some worthwhile comments from the evolution side (Eugenie Scott, as usual, is good), but it's still an example of that flawed journalistic model of flip-flopping between two sides of an issue, as if each is of equal merit. That's the only way clowns like Ken Ham can get significant air time, and you know they are counting on it.

(Speaking of Ham, he's his usual po-mo self, arguing that we can't know anything about the past, so his ideas are just as good as those of trained scientists…and that's why he gets to have a model dinosaur in his creation "science" museum that is wearing a saddle.)

For me, though, the really dismaying part is the series of soundbites from kids: all saying "I don't really believe in the whole evolution theory" and "I believe that God also made us. I just think it's a lot easier to believe then the big bang theory, or any of the other theories about apes." That's just sad. When I was their age, I remember being all fired up and wanting to know more and spending hours in the library reading everything I could. These kids have given up. And they've had their heads stuffed full of fraudulent nonsense before the teachers have even had a chance.

I know they're just kids and they've been subjected to an impoverished intellectual background, so it's a bit unkind to say this…but these kids are actually rather stupid.

I think you have different types of scientists, and the ones that bring about, you know, theories of evolution, I wouldn't call them scientists they're just like philosophers.

By the way, philosophers, you've got an image problem when the way to belittle scientists is to accuse them of committing philosophy.

But that comment includes a whole raft of misconceptions. Not just in the inaccurate stereotyping of science and philosophy, but in the assumption that evolution isn't built on a foundation of empirical research into the real world, just as much as is physiology or chemistry. And those kids are tragic—they're at a scientific dead-end.

And who condemns their kids to this state of ignorance? Their parents and snake-oil salesmen like Ken Ham.

TEACHER: I had a parent come in and basically said I was going to spend an eternity in hell, if I taught her kids about evolution.

TEACHER: I had a group of students all bring copies of the New Testament into class, and as we started to talk about 'change over time' they brought the Bible and said "here's my record of time." I mean, where - I have no place to go with this.

JEFFREY BROWN: Scott says tensions are so high that many teachers across the nation simply avoid evolution altogether.

EUGENIE SCOTT: If they feel that there's community pressure against the teaching of evolution, evolution will just quietly drift out of the curriculum, whether or not it's required.

I just heard from the NSTA, and they're reporting the same thing.

'Call to Arms' on Evolution; NSTA Express Survey Reveals Science Teachers Feel Pressure to Teach Nonscientific Alternatives to Evolution

Results of the NSTA Express survey on evolution were the topic of a USA Today article on March 24, which indicated that one third of teachers feel pressured to include creationism-related ideas in the classroom. The story also reported on the ‘Call to Arms’ by the science community to defend teaching evolution.

"I write to you now because of a growing threat to the teaching of science,” National Academy of Sciences chief Bruce Alberts says in a letter to colleagues March 4. He calls on academy members “to confront the increasing challenges to the teaching of evolution in public schools." The nation's top scientists belong to the National Academy of Sciences.

Thirty-one percent of teachers responding to the NSTA Express survey said they feel pressured to include creationism, intelligent design, or other nonscientific alternatives to evolution in the science classroom. Teachers indicated most of the pressure comes from students (22%) and parents (20%). 30% of the respondents agreed they feel pushed to de-emphasize or omit evolution or evolution-related topics from their curriculum, indicating the most pressure is coming from students and parents. Very few respondents indicated they felt pressured to include creationism by administrators or principals (5% and 3% respectively).

To read the press release on the survey results, go to http://science.nsta.org/nstaexpress/nstaexpress_2005_03_28_pressrelease.htm. Thanks to the 1,050 NSTA Express readers who took the survey.

We need to know about these attitudes, and the PBS show was useful in illustrating them. But we also need to stop this slow drift into the Dark Ages, and what I find appalling is that journalists don't address the consequences. "Oh, here's a bunch of students who want to ignore science, and here's some teachers who think this is terrible, and here's an evangelist who says this is wonderful. End of story." Come on. Think. When scientists and science teachers are overwhelmingly concerned about the poor state of science education and the understanding of science by our students, you don't make the problem go away by interviewing some quack bible-thumper. You don't help us understand the problem by bestowing authority on one of the causes of the problem.

You know what would be a good example of reporting? Compare science test scores internationally, and show that we have a looming problem. Ask qualified people, like professional biologists, what they consider essential knowledge for someone entering their discipline. Get a scientist to sit down with a journalist and leaf through the journals, and get across just how much research is dependent on this theory. Then show all those soundbites of our kids turning their backs on good science. If you must show Ken Ham (for comic effect, perhaps), follow up with a real scientist explaining how everything he said was goofy nonsense, like science learned from The Flintstones.

But please…pretending that this is a contest between two opinions of equal merit plays directly into the hands of the worst of the opinions. It turns journalism into a race for the bottom.


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Comments:
#20338: — 03/29  at  09:02 AM
"I believe that God also made us. I just think it's a lot easier to believe then the big bang theory [er, sic?], or any of the other theories about apes."

Well, even accounting for selection bias in the reporting, that pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? We're turning out children who understand not science, nor philosophy, nor, let's be clear, religion (somehow I doubt that these kids have been told about how competing Elohist and Yahwist sources in the Old Testament are responsible for the differing creation stories in Genesis). And the postmodern right is busy telling them, fact be damned, your intuition is right.

(Ironically, the confirmation word for this post is 'soviet.' Synchronicity?)



#20340: — 03/29  at  09:17 AM
"I just think it's a lot easier to believe then the big bang theory..." Of course, easy is what it is all about in school. Presented with differing theories, why not believe the easy one? (as if belief has ANY roll to play!) I myself like the Walt Disney model of atoms; quantum stuff is too hard. It seemed like Ham et al had more camera time than Eugenie and the scientists...
Teach the controversy, fair and balanced: at this point I start flinging myself at the walls and foaming at the mouth



#20341: — 03/29  at  09:20 AM
There is still some hope for those kids, especially the minority that want to study science or medicine in college. The ones that have no native interest in science are hopeless, but the kids who actually like bugs and dinosaurs aren't hopelessly lost, just misplaced. Based on my own personal experience, I suspect that many of the kids are compartmentalizing mutually contradictory beliefs. As a teenager, I went to a pretty fundamentalist church and a pusillanimous high school that skipped evolution in the science curriculum. Nevertheless, a couple of sememsters of undergraduate biology straightened me out.



#20342: — 03/29  at  09:26 AM
I think that this would be a short term problem if scientists weren't so liberal with their sharing of information and technology with those whose beliefs would have precluded them from following the breadcrumbs. Imagine if the smartest 1% kept their intellectual wealth to themselves the way the richest 1% do. It would be a different world.
Just to be clear, it would be a much worse world. I don't advocate doing this but sometimes a physicist can daydream....



#20343: — 03/29  at  09:37 AM
Yeah...I think that "this is easier to believe" comment betrays a lot. It's easier to point to the bible than try to understand what your teacher's talking about. That's WORK for most people, even, or especially, after they graduate.

Of course you were fired up PZ! But you are not the norm, or we'd all be professors. I can only wish.

I'm not sure I agree with you on all your complaints about this story, but I'm having a hard time articulating why I feel that way. I guess I'm thinking the general public will see it as unfair. It doesn't really matter what the truth is, they'll still think it's biased...look at the polling numbers. They'll claim you're hiding the facts of the other side. Maybe the story would be better if it showed the "facts" from both sides and gave time for some back-and-forth on them, but I bet they don't want to spend the time on that, and the Creationists in the audience would likely play the game of "we don't follow the same rules you do for evidence" and reject what's plainly laid out.

Did anyone notice Ham's use...still...in his lecture of the "were you there?" argument? Or Meyer's comment that "we're trying to change the way Science is done?"



#20344: — 03/29  at  09:40 AM
I'm not so sure about medical students, Nick. I think it's too easy for them to get away with the "well, evolution is irrelevant to my job" argument and just ignore the evolution content of the few classes they'll have that cover it. At least...I know some who have.



#20345: kelley b. — 03/29  at  09:46 AM
There is no real desire to present the issue objectively.

The TheoCons control the bucks not only for the commercial media, but now PBS as well.

Coming Dark Age, indeed.



#20346: — 03/29  at  10:04 AM
I was listening to a news story on NPR concerning military technology. Apparently, we are ahead of the rest of the world, in terms of technology, by about 10-15 years. We didn't become an economic and military superpower by saying god did it. We did it by practicing good, old fashioned, materialistic, naturalistic science. We didn't get that way by slapping saddles on triceratops and saying we don't know we weren't there. It's on shame the press keeps ignoring the impact of this stuff.



#20349: — 03/29  at  10:14 AM
Well, has that tireless defender of academic freedom David Horowitz weighed in yet on whether students who object to being taught evolution should have the right to sue? And if not, why not? Is David falling down on the job?



#20350: ionfish — 03/29  at  10:19 AM
Two points: firstly, to say that these children have been subjected to an "impoverished intellectual background" is something of an understatement. Remember that not only have they suffered from years of indoctrination (both implicit and explicit) at the hands of relatives and community members, but they have had their critical and investigative faculties if not supressed then at least malnourished. This is of course a general malaise, not limited to the Christian right-wing in America, but nonetheless it seems to me hard to overstate its impact. Children are incredibly receptive, and consequently incredibly vulnerable; they are empty vessels waiting to be filled.

As to the point about "philosophers", I wonder as to whether that supposed slur might not be due to more extremist propaganda. Given their apparent lack of knowledge of science and scientists, I suspect that what we're seeing is the condemnation of philosophy as the preserve of atheists; philosophers as theologians of the godless. Besides ignoring the place of devout Christians in the philosophical canon, it is also a view that has an understanding of philosophy limited to the selected quotes of Voltaire and Nietzsche.



#20352: — 03/29  at  10:28 AM
...the postmodern right...

That's a phrase I never thought I'd hear, but it fits well in this situation.

...but these kids are actually rather stupid.

Let it go, PZ. It's Chinatown Kentucky.



's avatar #20353: ajmilne — 03/29  at  10:35 AM
I really enjoy this blog. Read it assiduously.

But, some days, I read an article like this, and find myself involuntarily cringing and thinking: 'Kay... this is all getting to be a bit too much. It's the 21st century, we've got comparative rRNA and DNA studies up the wazoo, and these slackjawed wankers are *still* goin' on and on and on... Worse, they only seem to be getting *more* air time...

'So' (and this is still me, cringing and thinking), 'to hell with it. Let's just built a big, high wall 'round the US, just to be safe... keep all them nutty agents of unreason locked up in their own little cage, let 'em go find their way back to the Palaeolithic on their own, if that's their highest aspiration...'

Sure, sure, I know. I'd be consigning the actually sizeable number of quite sane, thoughtful US citizens like PZM and most of his commenters to a living hell, trapped in a world dangerously overpopulated with the glassy-eyed intellectual offspring (I use the term 'intellectual' loosely, here) of Falwell and Co... but at least *I'd* feel safe.

Just thought I'd share. And apologies to all of you for that very thought. It's unworthy I know. But still:

Brrrr.



#20355: Craig Carlyle Clarke — 03/29  at  10:53 AM
This is nothing new. I went to an honors high school in New York state in 1979, a place where you were supposed to be "smart" to get in.
In chemistry class it came out that I was a non-believer, and the whole class turned on me, not one other student supported me as I was attacked from all side. These honor students used arguments like "big bang? Where did it come from? Who started it? It had to come from somewhere - God did it."
When I tried to point out a contradiction in their reasoning by asking "Well then, where did God come from? Who created God?" their response was "He didn't have to come from somewhere - he's GOD!!!"

In another chemistry class in a different school it somehow came out that I was a non-believer. Again, the whole room was in an uproar as I was put on the hot seat... and when I tried to brush it all off just by saying "it doesn't make sense" to me, the SCIENCE teacher berated me in front of the whole class for questioning religion and saying it made no sense.



#20357: — 03/29  at  11:22 AM
I caught part of the NPR show last night. I had
to turn it off, as my shouting at the TV was
upsetting my husband. :(



#20358: — 03/29  at  11:25 AM
Ah, the old "unmoved first mover" argument. Of course, it was pointed out, oh, centuries ago that Aquinas' argument from first cause depends upon two classes of being (dependent and self-dependent) that have never been properly defined, let alone identified. But two thousand years of apologetics and theology have made very little mark on Christianity as it is practiced in America today.



#20359: — 03/29  at  11:25 AM
^ Wow, Craig, that's just absurd. I was a non-believer in high school. In business, philosophy and chemsitry class I would go off spouting how religion sucked and theism was false in front of everyone (muslims, christians, the teacher) and I did not get berated or chastized in any way, mind you this was in CATHOLIC SCHOOL; well that's Canada for you. smile



#20360: Dr Pretorius — 03/29  at  11:32 AM
By the way, philosophers, you've got an image problem when the way to belittle scientists is to accuse them of committing philosophy.


I'd feel so much worse about this if philosophers hadn't been having the same exact image problem ever since, well, Socrates. Of course, technically speaking scientists are philosophers (natural ones), so it's a little odd how they don't get out there and defend philosophy with more vigor. Still, having been on the other end of plenty of scoffing from scientists I have to say it's just (a little bit) satisfying to see them getting labeled with a term plenty of scientists have also been known to denigrate...

But then again, I've never claimed to be a good person.



#20362: — 03/29  at  11:44 AM
I don't know about anyone else but a dinosaur with a saddle automaticaly makes you persona non grata and a canidate for the looney bin.

In normal times and a normal society that is.



#20367: yami — 03/29  at  12:21 PM
But come on, a dinosaur with a saddle! Awesome! Unfortunately, any reasonable Jurassic Park scenario would have to be based on evolutionary biology... but still. I can't blame anyone for wanting to saddle up a stegosaurus, wanting it so bad that their vision clouds out any chance of connecting to reality, wanting it like Rush wants OxyContin or a bird wants to fly. It's the same deep human desires that make us swoon for B-movies and build giant fiberglass bananas by the side of the road!



's avatar #20369: ajmilne — 03/29  at  12:31 PM
It's the same deep human desires that make us swoon for B-movies and build giant fiberglass bananas by the side of the road!

I admire your lyricism. But while I'll give you the B-movies, I still suspect the giant fiberglass bananas are more to piss off the neighbours.



#20370: ionfish — 03/29  at  12:37 PM
Dr. Pretorius: I can only speculate as to why some (many?) scientists don't "get out there and defend more philosophy". As far as the reverse is concerned, philosophers tend to be concerned (at least in my experience) with arguing about things, and defending science is just another way of fulfilling that desire to engage in gladiatorial intellectual combat.

I can, however, imagine a number of reasons why a scientist might not respond to a slur on the good name with philosophy, or might even approve of it. To begin with, there sometimes exist what we might call "professional differences". As far as the ID/evolution "controversy" is concerned, I understand that certain "philosophers" are on the wrong side of the argument. Why any self-respecting philosopher would support a position that was mauled pretty comprehensively by Hume a hundred years before Darwin delivered the coup de grĂ¢ce I don't quite know, but nonetheless it's always tempting to generalise. The train of thought might run something like this: (some) philosphers are prepared to accept the arguments of Intelligent Design; they are clearly not people to be trusted to stick up for us, so why should we stick up for them?

Moreover, philosophy is a pretty broad tent. Given that it is at heart an enquiry into the framework of human thought, it cannot progress in the way that science (with its fixed underlying assumptions) can. This tends to mean that there are a wide number of views on offer, many of which might be in opposition to the beliefs of any given scientist. Defending the practice of philosophy would therefore have to be based on defending it as a subject worthy of study. One possibility might be that a significant number of scientists feel that science will provide all the answers, and that philosophy is merely the preserve of ivory-tower dilettantes.

Perhaps you could expand on the scoffing from scientists you've been on the receiving end of?



#20372: — 03/29  at  12:48 PM
Dinosaurs with saddles are pretty common - dare I say it - memes in popular culture.

From Dinotopia to Time Train, kids interacting with dinosaurs is popular, though not scientific, children's literature.

So, Ken Ham is really giving the kids what they want, namely, maybe people really *did* interact with dinosaurs.



#20373: yami — 03/29  at  12:58 PM
Actually, Big Things are typically built to encourage tourism in weensy towns - your Kwik-E-Mart gets a competitive advantage over the one down the road in Shelbyville if there's a giant banana next to it. I've never seen any studies about the actual cost/benefit ratio of such projects, but I have driven hours out of my way to see the World's Largest Ball of Twine. Why would I have done such a ridiculous thing, if not driven by mysterious urgings from deep within my meat?

(Obviously an alternate explanation is that I'm a contemptible hipster. I reject that hypothesis, on grounds that my t-shirt collection is almost entirely devoid of irony. So there.)



#20377: — 03/29  at  01:35 PM
When I was in high school, in the early '60s, most students did what they could to get out of taking any science or math courses.

The situation had not changed when my children were in high school in the '80s and again in the late '90s.

Most people don't feel the need to know more about science than they think they have learned from, as KeithB says, popular culture.



#20379: — 03/29  at  01:49 PM
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/uclickcomics/cx_tt_uc/latest



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