Pharyngula

Pharyngula has moved to http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/

Saturday, October 22, 2005

Penguins march, bite idiots on the butt

This was predictable. The makers of the film, March of the Penguins, resent that it has been hijacked by right-wingers and creationists.

Yesterday, days before the film’s British premiere at The Times bfi London Film Festival next week, the director hit back at the commentators he believes have wilfully misread his film. “If you want an example of monogamy, penguins are not a good choice,” Luc Jacquet told The Times. “The divorce rate in emperor penguins is 80 to 90 per cent each year,” he said. “After they see the chick is OK, most of them divorce. They change every year.”

That was plainly said in the film, too. It's a double error: it's the naturalistic fallacy, in that penguin monogamy is not an argument for human monogamy, just as the fact that penguins change mates annually is not an argument that humans should divorce annually; and it is simply wrong to claim that penguins are models of human values.

Another commentator, Andrew Coffin, wrote in the Christian publication World magazine that the complexity of the penguins’ lives was evidence of “intelligent design”, a theory developed for those who believe that life is too complex to have come about through random selection.

“It’s sad that acknowledgment of a creator is absent in the examination of such strange and wonderful animals,” he wrote. “But it is a gap easily filled by family discussion after the film.”

Mr Jacquet, who has never made a film for the cinema before, is concerned that his documentary has been hijacked. “It does annoy me to a certain degree,” he said. “For me there is no doubt about evolution. I am a scientist. The intelligent design theory is a step back to the thinking of 300 years ago. My film is not supposed to be interpreted in this way. Some scientists I know find the film interesting because it can be a good argument against intelligent design. People should not jump on these bandwagons.”

Again, it was amazing that these nitwits thought that long, dangerous treks through a frozen wilderness were signs of design. It is a kind of cruel complexity of exactly the sort that arises from unguided processes, and certainly wasn't evidence of a benevolent hand. The movie showed vividly evidence of casual death, and I don't think it was the gay baby penguins that were being selectively frozen and pecked to death by predators.


Trackback url: http://pharyngula.org/index/trackback/3203/LrPzDPKS/

Comments:
#45031: John McKay — 10/22  at  12:36 PM
"it is simply wrong to claim that penguins are models of human values"

I think you're wrong there. If the wingers and creationists want to model their lives on penguins, we shouldn't stop them. If they want to move out on the ice pack with no shelter or clothes and walk seventy miles every couple days to get a mouthful of krill to barf on their spouses, I say we we support them in that decision.



#45032: — 10/22  at  01:12 PM
Amen to what John says.

"The world would be much more nice
Were all the James Dobsons made to walk the ice."



#45034: coturnix — 10/22  at  01:29 PM
..walk the plank, perhaps?

In the meantime, I had my first class of the semester this morning, did the jigsaw puzzle exercise to talk about the scientific method and discussed why IDC is not science (I had one guy (out of 10 students) try a few of the old-and-tried fallcies on me with no success - the rest of the class got it just fine).

In other news here is an intelligently designed subcellular 'machine'.



#45035: coturnix — 10/22  at  01:32 PM
That link (http://calvinwilliamsjr.com/blog/?p=628) is misbehaving - youmay have to scroll down a post. It is today's post (22.Oct.2005).



#45036: charlie wagner — 10/22  at  02:05 PM
Paul wrote:

"The makers of the film, March of the Penguins, resent that it has been hijacked by right-wingers and creationists."



Just like proponents of intelligent design resent that it too has been hijacked by right-wingers and creationists.



's avatar #45039: Ken Cope — 10/22  at  02:40 PM
proponents of intelligent design resent that it too has been hijacked by right-wingers and creationists

Newsflash for you, Burgess Meredith: proponents of intelligent design are creationists. Intelligent design was never more than a broken down clown car, no matter who pratfalls out of it in fright wigs and clown shoes, playing slapstick with sliderules and squirting seltzer water at the rest of us in their outlandish faux scientist getups.



#45041: John Emerson — 10/22  at  03:01 PM
A lot of this has been covered by Mark Twain and others. For example, Robert Frost:

Design

I found a dimpled spider, fat and white,
On the white heal-all, holding up a moth
Like a white piece of rigid satin cloth-
Assorted characters of death and blight
Mixed ready to begin the morning right,
Like the ingredients of a witches broth-
A snow-drop spider, a flower like froth,
And dead wings carried like a paper kite.
What had that flower to do with being white,
The wayside blue and innocent heal-all?
What brought the kindred spider to that height,
Then steered the white moth thither in the night?
What but design of darkness to apall?—
If design govern in a thing so small.



#45042: John Emerson — 10/22  at  03:05 PM
A friend of mine had to draw blood from a penguin because they were dying mysteriously at the zoo. (Fungus infections, it turned out).

She reports that they're muscular, ill-tempered, uncooperative, ungrateful wads of muscle with beaks like snapping turtles. Their expressionless faces throw you off.



#45044: — 10/22  at  03:40 PM
For fidelity, far better the raven, but then the raven is black and noisy.



#45045: — 10/22  at  04:12 PM
She reports that they're muscular, ill-tempered, uncooperative, ungrateful wads of muscle with beaks like snapping turtles.

Especially in light of this, I found it odd that the adult penguins just sort of stood around looking befuddled while that giant petrel (aka the Gerald Ford of Predators) slid and stumbled around on the ice for what seemed like the better part of an hour, before it finally got hold of a penguin chick.

Maybe they were too preoccupied laughing. We'll never know, I guess. Expressionless faces and all.

Funny that the fundies didn't seem to draw the conclusion that we, like the penguins, should allow our children to be taken by comically clumsy predators. As usual, the fundies cherry pick only the most convenient bits of the movie and seem to sleep through the rest.



#45047: — 10/22  at  04:21 PM
John Emerson, that is a lie! A lie! Everyone knows that penguins are cute and cuddly and adorable. >: (



Trackback: Penguins as Intelligent Design Evidence? No Way! Tracked on: Paige's Page (72.9.234.70) at 2005 10 22 16:30:55
Leave it to those wacky intelligent design creationists to try to claim that the movie Penguins provides support for their theory. Fortunately, PZ Myers is on the case. Says Myers: “Again, it was amazing that these nitwits thought that long, dangerou...



#45050: charlie wagner — 10/22  at  05:05 PM
Ken Cope wrote:

"proponents of intelligent design are creationists."

Well, I believe that some sort of intelligent input was necessary for life to evolve and I'm not a creationist, despite what you may think.
Belief in a supernatural entity is a requirement to be a creationist but it is not a requirement for intelligent design. While the creationists are using intelligent design to promote their religious agenda, they are perfectly correct in claiming that it should be considered as a possible naturalistic scientific mechanism.
You have allowed religious creationists to dictate what scientists can and cannot study. They have created a chilling effect by which most reputable scientists will not even mention, much less consider the possibility that intelligent input may have been a factor in the emergence of life, even though the present mechanism has failed. You cling to a discredited theory for one and one reason only: you have nothing better to offer.



's avatar #45051: Raven — 10/22  at  05:11 PM
Well, looking to almost any bird species for examples of how humans ought to behave in social relationships (duck courtship, anyone?) requires an imperviousness to facts that's truly impressive. Not even swans...

She reports that they're muscular, ill-tempered, uncooperative, ungrateful wads of muscle with beaks like snapping turtles. Their expressionless faces throw you off.


John, did she ever try abject bribery? One parrot I used to sit for always tried to take my fingers off when I'd put his food bowl in his cage. I found I could feed the little b****** by always giving him an almond first--as much as he wanted to bite me, he couldn't bring himself to drop and lose his almond in doing so.

Works on bears, too:

In exchange for treats like apples, honey water and Starbucks pastries, Mica and Luna are eager to help their human handlers probe the secrets of hibernation by holding out their paws for blood tests, and standing for fairly long periods in one place to accommodate ultrasound readings.



#45058: — 10/22  at  07:03 PM
Penguins can also be gay and will prostitute themselves for stones to build their nests. Not exactly the kind of morals most religious fundamentalists are supporting.



#45061: — 10/22  at  09:17 PM
charlie w: "Belief in a supernatural entity is a requirement to be a creationist but it is not a requirement for intelligent design."

If the designer is not a supernatural being, where did he or she or they come from? Perhaps they were designed by some previous designer, but ultimately, if one is to make an argument that does not include a supernatural being, one has to come to a being or species that was not designed, the first designer if you will. This means that it is not impossible for intelligent life to form without input from a designer. In that case, what need is there to invoke a designer at all?



#45066: — 10/22  at  11:38 PM
Rich Lowry (Editor no less!) of the NR charmed by a French movie about the life of penguins?!



#45070: — 10/23  at  07:01 AM
Looks like Charlie is an interesting guy. Click his name for his website.

Charlie is persuaded by the irreducible complexity argument, apparently without the usual prepping of religion. I had thought these guys didn't exist.

The universe has always existed. The intelligence in it that created life is not described, but I assume is taken to have not itself been created. I'd guess this intelligence is supposed to be a life form, so I don't see how he elludes the "turtles all the way down" problem. Somehow his stance reminds me of the "God has always existed" folks.

Personally, I have no sense of ultimate orgins either. But I hesitate to go from "I don't know" to "therefore".



#45071: charlie wagner — 10/23  at  07:46 AM
Dianne wrote:

"If the designer is not a supernatural being, where did he or she or they come from?"



"If there can be anything without a cause, it may just as well be the world as God, so that there cannot be any validity in that argument. It is exactly of the same nature as the Hindu's view, that the world rested upon an elephant, and the elephant rested upon a tortoise; and when they said, "How about the tortoise?" the Indian said, "Suppose we change the subject." The argument is really no better than that. There is no reason why the world could not have come into being without a cause; nor, on the other hand, is there any reason why it should not have always existed. There is no reason to suppose that the world had a beginning at all. "

"Why I Am Not A Christian" - Bertrand Russell
http://www.charliewagner.net/russell.htm



#45072: — 10/23  at  08:21 AM
Charlie Wagner: That doesn't really answer my question: who or what are the designers and how did they come into existence?

"There is no reason to suppose that the world had a beginning at all. "

Actually, there is. There is a fairly well described theory of planetary origins, which can explain the origin of the specific planet we know as the world. The origins of the universe are a bit more speculative, but the big bang is an accepted theory with considerable data to back it, including direct evidence such as the cosmic microwave background.

So, what is the non-magical explanation of who the designers were and how they came to be? As far as I can see, you must either admit that evolution of complex forms is possible or invoke a supernatural explanation. If the first, what is there to suggest that the "first designers" who arose through evolution aren't us (humans certainly have designed life forms through domestication, hybridization, and, most recently, direct manipulation of DNA)? If the second then you really lose your claim to having a scientific theory.



#45073: Keith Douglas — 10/23  at  08:42 AM
(Happy mole day, everyone!)

Jake has perhaps unwittingly suggested something with very unfortunate? interesting? overtones if one knows about the Inuit. Sometimes Inuit traditionally walk out onto the ice and don't come back (deliberately). So to suggest that Dobson be made to walk the ice sounds like one is forcing him to commit suicide.

Just a cultural note ...



#45077: charlie wagner — 10/23  at  09:25 AM
Dianne wrote:

"Actually, there is. There is a fairly well described theory of planetary origins,..."



With all due respect, all of the current theories of planetary and solar system formation are seriously flawed. While we are learning a lot about the composition of the solar system wrt comets, meteorites, asteroids, etc, very little is known about the mechanism of formation. In fact, the most popular theory, the nebular hypothesis was first proposed by Kant in the 16th century!
Even so, planetary and solar system formation is a local phenomenon and tells us little about the origins of the universe itself. The current theory of the origin of the universe, the Big Bang hypothesis is also seriously flawed. So the bottom line is, we still don't know where the universe, the bodies in it, and the life forms on earth came from.

"So, what is the non-magical explanation of who the designers were and how they came to be?"

I have no explanation. I don't know that there are "designers" either. It's as deep a mystery as can be. All I can say with certainty is that observations of living systems suggest a level of organization that can only be achieved with intelligent input, or by some unknown first principle that has not yet been discovered.
Our only hope is that by using the scientific method, we will someday understand the universe and the life in it and the mechanisms that created it. I'm confident that it will be a perfectly naturalistic explanation that doesn't require any supernatural entities and that it will fall comfortably within the province of natural science.
But I strenuously object to the compulsion by scientists to make up explanations to fill in the gaps in our knowledge that are not supported by empirical data.

http://www.charliewagner.com
http://enigma.charliewagner.com



#45078: — 10/23  at  09:34 AM
Seriously, did these fundamentalists actually watch March of the Pengiuns? If it is proof of intelligent design, the designer had a very strange sense of humor.



's avatar #45087: — 10/23  at  10:38 AM
Penguins used to swim to the beach where I used to work as summer lifeguard (in Monte Hermoso beach, South Argentina). I confirm "they're muscular, ill-tempered, uncooperative" as well as fearless (vs humans & dogs), agressive, interested only in fish and smelling like putrid squid. They are uneatable.

It must be admitted that they are photogenic.

Quod natura non sunt turpia



#45091: — 10/23  at  11:11 AM
Keith--
I did not know that about the Inuit, although upon reflection I'm not surprised that that would be a method of suicide up there.
My little couplet was intended only to express a wish that creationists could see more of the consequences of their thinking.
I suspect the world would be a better place without Dobson, but I would not go so far as to treat him as Hannibal Lecter did Multiple Miggs, even if I had the verbal skills for that sort of thing.



Page 1 of 3 pages  1 2 3 >

Next entry: Uncommon Dissent

Previous entry: Cicadas

<< Back to main

Info

email PZ Myers
Search
Archives
UMM—America's best public liberal arts college