Pharyngula::Please, make it stop. Will the lunacy never end?

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Tuesday, May 10, 2005

Please, make it stop. Will the lunacy never end?

PZ Myers • 50 Comments (last page)

Assembly Bill 8036, introduced on May 3, 2005 and referred to the Committee on Education, would require that "all pupils in grades kindergarten through twelve in all public schools in the state ... receive instruction in both theories of intelligent design and evolution." It also charges New York's commissioner of education to assist in developing curricula and local boards of education to provide "appropriate training and curriculum materials ... to ensure that all aspects of the theories, along with any supportive data, are fully examined through such course of study." A08036, if enacted, would take effect immediately. Richard Firenze, who teaches biology at Broome Community College, remarked, "This bill is completely absurd. Those of us in New York who are concerned about our children's science education should sit up and take notice: it's not just in places like Georgia and Kansas that creationists are trying to sabotage biology education." The bill's sole sponsor, Daniel L. Hooker (R), represents Assembly District 127, encompassing parts of Greene, Otsego, Delaware, Schoharie, Ulster, Columbia, and Chenango counties. Hooker also recently introduced bills that would, if enacted, permit the display of the Ten Commandments on public buildings and grounds (A08073), declassify sexual orientation from civil right status (A07916), and prohibit the solemnization of same-sex marriages (A07723).

This is like some kind of syndrome, isn't it? This weird combination of religious bigotry, homophobia and stupidity comes up again and again. I hope this Hooker twit is an oddball on the assembly, and that this bill dies quickly.

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Comments:

#24565: — 05/10 at 06:44 PM
yes, this appears to be some sort of virus that renders its host an imbecile. I recently lost an intelligent, fair-minded (or so I thought), liberal friend to this fundemental/evangelical/hoo-haw epidemic, may he rest in peace.

#24567: — 05/10 at 06:57 PM
Be afraid, be very afraid. And then fight back with humor and passion and truth!

If I can't have at least one good laugh per day, I'm lost. Good luck to all.

#24568: — 05/10 at 07:09 PM
I hope atheists think about how to make atheism more competitive. Simply being right does not ensure victory.

#24571: Ali — 05/10 at 07:22 PM
Crap. So... there's still Canada, right?

#24572: — 05/10 at 07:35 PM
Yes, where you can be fined for saying 'offensive' things.

#24573: No More Mr. Nice Guy! — 05/10 at 07:51 PM
It also charges New York's commissioner of education to assist in developing curricula and local boards of education to provide "appropriate training and curriculum materials ... to ensure that all aspects of the theories, along with any supportive data, are fully examined through such course of study."

Okay, let's take care of that:

CREATION SCIENCE
Theory: goddidit
Supporting evidence:

The End

#24574: — 05/10 at 07:51 PM
I just looked that up. Make that imprisoned. Canada's Criminal Code section 319 makes it a crime to incite hatred against a religious group, punishable by a year in jail.

Living in a different country than Tom DeLay and Kathy Martin would be great, but it's not worth my freedom of speech.

#24575: — 05/10 at 08:02 PM
They just keep flinging it in the hope that some of it will actually stick. They were probably trying to sneak one in while everyone was watching Kansas.

#24576: P.M.Bryant — 05/10 at 08:22 PM
There are nutball legislators in every state apparently. Still, I highly doubt this will come anywhere close to becoming law in New York.

#24577: Orac — 05/10 at 08:24 PM
I can only hope you're right. It's getting too close to home...

--
Orac “A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”
http://oracknows.blogspot.com

#24580: coturnix — 05/10 at 09:05 PM
This morning on Connection on NPR, Dick Gordon trotted out a list of at least a dozen states that have some such legislation in the works. Among the usual Southern suspects, I was susrprised to hear: Maryland! Does anyone know more?

#24581: — 05/10 at 09:12 PM
All it takes is one elected idiot to get a bill introduced. It takes a gaggle of idiots to get it out of committee. But it takes the Democratic leader of the Assembly to get it passed. I am very confident that this bill will die in committee.

New York is a big state. It ain't just Manhattan. There are a whole bunch of religious nuts north of the Tappan Zee bridge.

#24582: — 05/10 at 09:14 PM
Republican bills in the state Assembly aren't anything to worry about. They get proposed and then ignored. I mean, this guy can't even get a single other assemblyperson to sign on to it.

#24583: Orac — 05/10 at 09:37 PM
Unfortunately, it's not just the Bible belt Southern states anymore. The ID wingnuts are gaining a foothold even in "blue" states.

--
Orac “A statement of fact cannot be insolent.”
http://oracknows.blogspot.com

#24585: False Prophet — 05/10 at 09:55 PM
I am no fan of hate crime legislation in Canada, though upon closer inspection:

The crime of "publicly inciting hatred" has four main elements. To contravene the Code, a person must:

-communicate statements,
-in a public place,
-incite hatred against an identifiable group,
-in such a way that there will likely be a breach of the peace.

My understanding is if your words, say, rallied hordes of people to embrace atheism, and they started burning down churches and harrassing believers (or that was likely to happen), you'd be in violation of the law. Other than under the auspices of some violent political ideology (e.g., Stalinism, which replaces religion with a different form of irrational worship: the cult of personality), when have atheists supported hatred of religion? All the atheists I've met or read either ignore religion, ridicule it, or attempt to illustrate its uselessness or harmfulness. None of those can be placed under the auspices of hatred. I myself have taken creationists and IDiots to task in the letters pages of my local newspaper and have never been charged with hate speech.

Section 319(3) identifies acceptable defences. Indicates that no person shall be convicted of an offence if the statements in question:

-are established to be true
-were relevant to any subject of public interest, the discussion of which was for the public benefit, and if on reasonable grounds it was believed to be true
-were expressed in good faith, it was attempted to establish by argument and opinion on a religious subject
-were expressed in good faith, it was intended to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters tending to produce feelings of hatred toward an identifiable group in Canada

I think most of our efforts in this area fall under these parameters. Evolution is true and creationism is false; proper science education is relevant to the public interest and for the public benefit; we work "in good faith...[attempting] to establish by argument and opinion on a religious subject (the opinion that religion doesn't belong in science class)"; and it's intended "to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters tending to produce feelings of hatred toward an identifiable group in Canada (evolutionists/atheists)."

#24586: — 05/10 at 09:58 PM
The sponsor is Assembly Member Daniel L. Hooker, VMI and Cornell graduate, and a Marine put on active duty after 9/11. He's also the genius behind these bills:

A07916: Declassifies sexual orientation from
civil rights status.

A06015: An act to amend the education law, in relation to prohibiting instruction relating to alternative sexual lifestyles.

A05961: Specifies the reference to one Nation under God in the pledge of allegiance.

I'm reassured by JBL. Funny -- my state is dominated by Republicans, but nobody has ever drafted bills like these.

Trackback: Now New York Tracked on: Abnormal Interests (64.81.36.251) at 2005 05 10 22:15:38
I want to write about something else: archaeology, Ugarit, Paleoanthropology, anything. I'd even like to publish my next installment in Marketing Biology. But crazy stuff keeps coming up. Now, Daniel Hooker of the New York State Assembly has introduced a...

#24589: Eva Young — 05/10 at 10:17 PM
I doubt this will go anywhere in the New York legislature. None the less, just introducing it wastes taxpayer resources on addressing this non-issue.

#24593: — 05/11 at 12:20 AM

yes, this appears to be some sort of virus that renders its host an imbecile.

My condolences about your friend, Katie. Yes, this lunacy is pernicious, like a virus. Or like the lancet fluke, that commandeers ants by encysting in their brain and induces them to crawl up grass stems where they're more likely to be ingested by grazers, their next host.

#24594: — 05/11 at 02:51 AM

My understanding is if your words, say, rallied hordes of people to embrace atheism

Persuading people to reject a religion is not inciting hatred - nor is ridicule or insult. Saying that the IDots are stupid, cretinous throwbacks to the thirteenth century who ought, if there were any justice, be subject to retrospective abortion is not incitement to hatred.

The main culprits of incitement to religious hatred tend to be religious bigots; the blood libel hoolala, for example, can certainly be incitement to religious hatred...

This having been said, the wording of the British bill (anyone know what happened to that? was it abandoned?) was seriously scary - as it allowed for language intended or likely to incite religious hatred or cause offence...

Yeek!

#24595: — 05/11 at 02:59 AM
If the Canadian bill is anything like most European bills, then you'd have to incide to violence before getting charged. I believe that such a thing would also lead to a charge in the US, neh?

Denmark has a racism paragraph that many free speech absolutists (an racists of course) hate, but which in reality is a paragraph protecting against libel/slander of an entire ethnic group, and which was a counter against anti-Semitistic propaganda. Few are charged for breaking it, and even fewer get found guilty, but politicians and would-be politicians does seem overrepresented among those found guilty.

#24597: socioman — 05/11 at 03:31 AM
Just out of curiosity, can those of us with children still in school simply exercise a right to "opt-out" if this mindwaste comes to our schools? I mean, isn't one issue that drives this kind of crap...I mean, aren't the sucker-parents pulled in because ID gives them a sense of "parental authority" over their kids' education?

I say opt the hell out. Protest like crazy. I'm going to. My son just told me he wants to go to medical school (he's just a young teen yet). I simply won't have him learning in school that science involves putting your hands together and using magic words like "thou" and "thine." I will not effin' do it!

This insidious ID thing...well, it sucks. I know that parents saying no is not going to fix the problem, but I just will not have it! Grrr... Hell, I'm a sociologist...if they insist that someone "teach the controversy," I can damned sure do that, and do it right, since the ID craze is far more understandable from a sociological perspective than from a biological one. I think I can pull of an hour of home schooling a day to keep these hacks away from my kid's mind.

Bunk, bunk, BUNK. Okay. Incoherent venting mode off.

#24599: — 05/11 at 04:04 AM
Ok, the best part of this debate is having a quick look at history. The Catholics perpetrated the Reformation in western Europe, out of which the Renaissance grew. People got sick of being burnt at the stake and started looking at their world in a new light. Knowledge and understanding expanded, Some smart person came up with a theory to prove the world was round ('cos, you know the Vikings did understand that, as well as the ancient Greeks before them) and, well we know the rest.

If it wasn't for science, i'm sure a lot of these ID believers would be dead. I mean, think about it: Louis Pasteur, Marie Curie just to name two. Don't forget the person that came up with insulin so that they can get off their diabetic behinds to get to "worship" without falling into a coma.

It makes me mad to think that there are people so willing to stifle intelligent thought, for without an understanding of the world around us, we will not progress one iota more, falling deeper and deeper into a morass of "They say it is So, so it must be."

We need not look too far afield to see this simplistic thought pattern and makes me think of the famous words of one early US patent office director that "everything that can be invented, has been."

#24600: — 05/11 at 04:34 AM

Some smart person came up with a theory to prove the world was round ('cos, you know the Vikings did understand that, as well as the ancient Greeks before them) and, well we know the rest.

The concept that the world was flat was a minority view even back in the Middle Ages - see for example
Talk Origins.

#24604: Chad Orzel — 05/11 at 06:21 AM
If you look closely at the story, the bill has only one sponsor, which is a good indication that it's a lone wing-nut doing this for the sake of publicity. As the story notes, he's been busy:

Hooker also recently introduced bills that would, if enacted, permit the display of the Ten Commandments on public buildings and grounds (A08073), declassify sexual orientation from civil right status (A07916), and prohibit the solemnization of same-sex marriages (A07723).

The guy's a nutbar.

Keep in mind that New York is a very big state-- it's not just the five boroughs. The central part of the state is pretty conservative-- your favorite cartoonist, Johnny Hart of "BC" is from the Binghamton area, and the anti-abortion terror cell "Operation Rescue" was founded there as well.

(I grew up just north of Binghamton, so I know its wing nuts well.)

The counties that Hooker is representing are a bit north and east of Binghamton, and are all very rural and conservative.

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Tuesday, May 10, 2005

Please, make it stop. Will the lunacy never end?

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