#20400: Ryan Fenno — 03/29  at  06:28 PM
So, I'm pretty new to the Intelligent Design/Creationism deal. I guess my HS science teachers, who all happened to be very religious people (South Carolina), never discussed any "alternative theories" when discussing evolution. It was just the standard textbook treatment. (Opted out of bio courses in college.)

Is the IDC movement purely reactionary? Is it the current political climate that is enabling them? I just don't remember hearing much about creationism in the context of "debunking evolution". Maybe I'm just noticing it more now?

#20401: — 03/29  at  06:40 PM
It's probably mostly that you're noticing it more now. The creationists have been around for decades. And while the creationists haven't been that successful at getting their stuff into schools they've been quite successful for decades at keeping teaching of evolution out of schools.

Although the creationists are feeling a bit bolder after the recent elections.

#20407: — 03/29  at  07:30 PM
I found this qoute amusing "In almost every scientific discipline there is newly found evidence that supports the theory of intelligent design". I must be in denial, because I have not seen any in newly found evidence in anthropology that supports ID creationism. I guess the conservatives never met a fundie they couldn't pander to.

#20409: — 03/29  at  07:41 PM
Afarensis, Nothing here in physics either. Although the recent "observation" of a supersolid stretches my secular view of quantum mechanics.

Man, i kind of wish this paper i was writing right now could just be a graph of data and the text, "Look what god did. Neato."
Would make the literature search a lot shorter[1].


[1] God et al. The Bible (0000)

#20410: — 03/29  at  07:47 PM
Join in, and mock the stupid conservatives until they exhibit some shame.

That will be a very long and fruitless mocking.

#20412: — 03/29  at  08:15 PM
Look, Dick, look!

Jane can't explain!

But God can!

God knows all!

Look Jane Look!

See Eye Dee!

See Eye Dee tell!

Tell, Eye Dee tell!

See Spot run!

Run, Spot, run!

Four legs good!

Evil Lu-Shun bad!

#20417: Duane Smith — 03/29  at  10:45 PM
Heritage Foundation Mission

The Heritage Foundation is a research and educational institute - a think tank - whose mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.

By sponsoring this event, are they formulating or promoting ignorance? Or are they more fully carrying out their mission by doing both? Does ignorance foster a strong national defense?

#20418: — 03/29  at  10:58 PM
We laugh, but these are the same people that successfully got this nation into a $200B war in Iraq.

Same modus operandi from the Straussians, maintain exoteric 'truths' for the sheep:

"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds
of people.  There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are
appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated
adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and
the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone
is a modern democratic fallacy."

We have front-row seats to the bullshitting of the american mind. And don't think for a moment that it can't happen here -- it is. The oligarchs see religiousity as a blank check for ~20M votes every cycle, not to mention dedicated footsoldiers if not shocktroops. Add that to the ~20M terminally xenophobic and the ~10M+ voting their pocketbook and you've got a 2% margin of victory over the forces of reason and liberty.

#20424: BadTux — 03/29  at  11:40 PM
Next up: A seminar on the "flat Earth theory" as contrasted with the "round Earth theory" that those wicked liberal atheist college professors keep pushing upon impressionable young youth. Why can't those college professors give both sides of the story?!

- Badtux the Sarcastic Penguin

#20429: lloydletta — 03/30  at  01:03 AM
Badtux - great point. I used it in my blog post on the topic. The Blogs did shame heritage before when they included some of Paul Cameron's research on their site.

#20435: — 03/30  at  03:32 AM
Rest easy, children. All is right in this world. God is watching over you. Sheep may safely graze.

Instead, they think that the microscopic world of the cell provides evidence of purpose and design in nature

Yeah, well, Percival Lowell peered through his telescope and descried canals and oases on Mars, perhaps having misread Schiaparelli.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Which is what makes science the only game in town, unless you're of the party that believes you've already got the answers in your thick black book.

#20438: — 03/30  at  06:19 AM
Is the Heritage Foundation still funded by the Coors family?

If so, it might be a good idea to stop buying Coors if they are funding the promotion of pseudoscience. And Molson too for that matter (I'm in Canada), as Molson and Coors recently merged.

Then again, I never drank Coors or Molson to begin with; their "beer" tastes like piss.

#20442: — 03/30  at  07:30 AM
Kyle,
Glad to know I'm not the "unobservent" one. Those fine christian men over at the Discovery Institute would never fib about the evidence, so it must just be me! And of course who could argue with a reference like: 1] God et al. The Bible (0000)?

#20445: Trish Wilson — 03/30  at  08:19 AM
I saw that at Washington Monthly and wondered how long it would take you to jump on it.

I have a blowgun if you want to borrow it. Those little plastic pellets hurt! :D

Trackback: Conservatives adopt ignorance and irrationality as Tracked on: Preposterous Universe (72.9.234.70) at 2005 03 30 10:18:31
Okay, I suppose there is no official "conservative platform" that people get together and vote on. But it's clear that mainstream conservatism is increasingly comfortable with the idea of attacking science and supporting creationism.

#20463: — 03/30  at  10:50 AM
Oh look, Ann Coulter inciting violence and bigotry:

http://www.ljworld.com/story200443.html
http://www.drudgereport.com/

Yes, those "conservatives" are so darned funny. Ha ha hah ha...

#20466: heinrich — 03/30  at  11:29 AM
hmmh, the same folks that tell us global warming is a myth and ecosystems don't matter are trying to inform us of ID. Coincidence?

#20470: — 03/30  at  11:55 AM
I have found the force of order, one that clearly is responsible for the patterns in nature, like water ripples, and electromagnetic waves. I suppose such complex identifiable wave-shapes are believed to be "just accident" or something of the sort among biased scientists, but people are fools if they think that photons "just happen" or some such rot.

I know, I know, the prejudiced establishments keeps telling me that I have to identify this over-arching force of order, or at least tell a little of its nature and action. Sure, like science should be limited to such small-mindedness, to what can be described and understood materialistically. I'm not so limited, I can show that ordered patterns arise in nature, and that such order coming out of complexity has to be the force of order. After all, what are the odds that waves should simply "appear in regular patterns" after a rock is dropped in a pond? Only my force of order can explain it, and I'm not going to be shut up or squelched by a bunch of pedantic scientists.

This is why I'm angry at the Heritage Foundation. They're giving a voice to these IDists who just claim that a "designer" did it. Granted, us unorthodox scientists need to turn to more open minds to get a hearing, but clearly the IDists are just recycling a kind of Genesis/Platonic god. My force of order uses scientific terms and doesn't depend on an unknown "intelligence". I'm only arguing for my force of order, sort of in the Aristotelian sense of order, and not recycling a religion.

So point and laugh at the Heritage Foundation if you wish, but please suggest to them to consider a much more scientific idea, my force of order. I know that many "scientists" look down on my still-to-be-defined force and my lack of certainty as to its actions, but there's really no reasonable way in which my force of order can be denied. Only it can explain complex ordered patterns in nature, so it must be considered. It's certainly a cut above ID, anyhow.

#20471: The Commissar — 03/30  at  12:01 PM
Ugh. ugh. ugh.

You have just scored about 2,000 points in our ongoing, if one-sided, debate about the conflation of politics and Creationist nonsense.

ughg. ugh. ugh.

#20483: PZ Myers — 03/30  at  01:26 PM
Good.

Here's the problem: I am not the one conflating the two. The Republican party has ridden to victory by cheerfully conjoining their policies with the theocratic religious right; you reap what you sow. Republicans don't get to claim independence from nonsense like creationism while publicly avoiding any disavowals of their garbage, or worse, endorsing it.

I know you have been standing up for respectable science, and I know a few other conservatives with similar views. But the Republican party is the party of the know-nothings and the religious freaks and the war mongers and the incompetent. Change that and I'll stop thinking conservative=idiot.

But you don't get a free pass now. As long as the face of your party is Delay and Santorum and Frist and Bush and other such anti-intellectuals and kooks, they get zero respect from me.

#20485: PZ Myers — 03/30  at  01:48 PM
By the way, I see that you have correctly assessed the situation. Conservatives have given us this club, and are going to get pounded with it, as they deserve.

Nothing would make me happier than to see the Republican party take that weapon away from me. I don't see it happening, though.

Trackback: Heritage's happy to help! Tracked on: She Flies With Her Own Wings (72.9.234.70) at 2005 03 30 14:03:08
Additional topics of discussion will include how the pagan practice of teaching evolution during adolescence leads to dangerous thoughts concerning the preservation of ecosystems and anthropogenic global warming.

#20488: Nullifidian — 03/30  at  02:26 PM
386sx, my friend Rob went to the event and blogged about it here: http://unapologeticatheist.blogspot.com/2005/03/night-of-blackshirts.html

#20504: — 03/30  at  05:50 PM
Brad DeLong also reminds us that even economists think that ID is for the benighted.

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2005/03/time_to_pull_th.html

(got this in the wrong thread the first time)

#20527: Ben — 03/30  at  08:51 PM
Puts their calls for Kofi Annan's head regarding alleged obfuscation and unethical behavior nicely in perspective.