Pharyngula::Random thoughts on the appointment of a new Pope

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005

Random thoughts on the appointment of a new Pope

PZ Myers • 152 Comments (last page)

Forget this "Benedict" crap, I'm always going to think of him as Pope Ratzinger.
Former Hitler Youth ~~and Nazi~~?^* Why am I not surprised?
Those sunken eyes, that soulless grin…I'm thinking Zombie Pope.^**
Weren't there any Borgias in the running?
Giblets is going to be sooooo pissed.
The last guy was considered relatively progressive, and he was a tight-sphinctered reactionary when it came to women, gays, and, well, just about everything. This one is a conservative hardliner…does that mean return of the Inquisition, or that we'll have a dramatic rebound with the appointment of the first lesbian cardinal?
Personally, I was rooting for Sophia Loren.
"the driving force behind crackdowns on liberation theology, religious pluralism, challenges to traditional moral teachings on issues such as homosexuality, and dissent on such issues as women's ordination." Yeah, that's the man to represent orthodox religion in the 21st century.
Boo yah, atheism is going to be more popular than ever!

^*Edited because we must be accurate.

^**Or vampire.^***

^***Or lich. It's getting very hard to keep up with all the suggestions; can we just say some generic form of evil undead?

The other bulleted points are, of course, completely true.

Whoa. Matthew just put up a few links that have completely changed my view of this pope.

Separated at birth? Pope Ratzi and the Evil Bilbo.

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Comments:

#22273: Alon Levy — 04/19 at 12:58 PM
In his defense, he deserted from the Wehrmacht.

#22274: — 04/19 at 01:02 PM
Return of the Inquisition?
Nobody expects the head of the organization which 'replaced' (superseded?) the Inquisition...
It never left, and its head honcho now rules the lot of them.
Pfeh.

Shirley Knott

#22276: — 04/19 at 01:21 PM
Nazi? No, just some guy who thinks liberals are fascists.
Grand Inquisitor? Please, that's so a few centuries ago, Head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has a much better ring to it.

The National Catholic Reporter had a comprehensive cover story on him six years ago. Well worth reading. http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/041699/041699a.htm

#22277: yami — 04/19 at 01:23 PM
But Giblets is the Pope! I am anxiously awaiting the restoration of Church jackal pits and a big Jesus made of ice cream!

#22278: — 04/19 at 01:23 PM
The importance of the Pope, and who he/she is, is vastly overrated in my opinion. I'm not a Catholic but I've worked for and with Catholics all my life, including quite a few ex-priests and ex-nuns, and few look to the Pope or the hierarchy for moral or ethical guidance. With no state to rule—unless one wishes to maintain that the 200 or so acres of the Vatican is a real state—the church is devoid of temporal power and with having ceded its long claimed moral power in recent years, why pay it any more heed than a fourth world potentate? The church in the end is all theatre. If not, then why have all the fancy robes, the rituals in theatrical settings, the secret conclaves, the white smoke/black smoke signals, the Swiss Guards, and the incense? Who else engages in such slight hand? The circus and Las Vegas shows.

#22279: Bill Ware — 04/19 at 01:24 PM
A family friend was in the Hitler Junge. It was required of everyone his age in those days. One could avoid it if one were gay (something like our military today), however, this option was not very popular. BW

#22280: PZ Myers — 04/19 at 01:27 PM
Huh. People are arguing with the assertion that he was a former Hitler Youth member, which is pretty much given and admitted by Pope Rat himself, and ignoring the stuff about Zombie Pope and Borgias.

I'm reading that as, "yeah, he might be undead, and he might be morally comparable to schemers and poisoners, and maybe he is going to set the church back a few hundred years, but it's not his fault they made him fight for the Nazis."

Just so that's all cleared up.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris

#22281: — 04/19 at 01:30 PM
Are zombie popes killed by holy water?

Rrawr!

#22282: — 04/19 at 01:33 PM
It's unfair to call him a Nazi. He was never a member of the Party, though he was conscripted in 1943 and put in an anti-aircraft battery. My father met folks in the same boat when he was working in Munich - there was little choice in the matter. Slam him on his record as a member of the Church - he certainly deserves it - but his past as a Wehrmacht conscript is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

And I'm not thinking zombie so much as Pope Budget Dracula I.

#22283: Alon Levy — 04/19 at 01:36 PM

Joseph Ratzinger was born in Marktl am Inn, in Bavaria, the son of a police officer who was staunchly anti-Nazi. In 1937 Ratzinger's father retired and settled in the town of Traunstein. When Ratzinger turned 14 in 1941, he was required by law to join the Hitler Youth, but according to his biographer John Allen he was not an enthusiastic member. He requested to be taken off the rolls and reportedly refused to attend a single meeting. In 1943, at the age of 16 he was, along with the rest of his class, drafted into the Flak or anti-aircraft corps, responsible for the guarding of a BMW plant outside Munich. He was then sent for basic infantry training and was posted to Hungary, where he worked setting up anti-tank defences until fleeing in April 1944 (an offense punishable by death).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_XVI

He is a reactionary fanatic, but he wasn't a Nazi at the age of 17.

#22284: The Commissar — 04/19 at 01:37 PM
Sean,

Unfair? LOL!

So what if membeship in the Hitler Youth was compulsory.

Get with the program, dude! It's important to attack this guy.

Facts? Fair?

#22285: — 04/19 at 01:40 PM
"Get with the program, dude! It's important to attack this guy."

Yes it is. He's a sociopolitical reactionary and I'm certain his papacy will do more harm than good. I'm just advocating attacking him on his record and purported vampirism.

#22286: Andrew — 04/19 at 01:41 PM
Of course it's fair. We're talking about the qualifications of the guy who's supposed to be the physical manifestation of divine holiness and moral law on Earth. The criteria should be a little difficult, don't you think?

Maybe it's not reasonable to expect every German boy to resist first the Hitler Youth and then the Fuhrer's army. Okay; I can accept that. But isn't it reasonable to expect the Pope to show some moral courage?

Incidentally, deserting the German army in 1945 is self-preservation, not bravery. Deserting the army in 1941 would have been courage....

#22287: The Commissar — 04/19 at 01:43 PM
Sean,

I agree with you, of course.

My sarcasm meter is permanently stuck somewhere between 'annoying' and 'obnoxious.' Sorry.

#22288: paperwight — 04/19 at 01:45 PM
I think it's more Nosferatu III than Zombie Pope.

What's with the permatroll?

#22289: — 04/19 at 01:49 PM
Andrew, you miss my point. It's unfair to call him a Nazi because he was never a member of the Nazi Party. Neither the Hitler Youth nor the Wehrmacht are synonymous with the Nazi Party. Had he been in the SS, it would have been an entirely different matter. Moreover, his desertion was not in 1945, but April 1944 - two months BEFORE the Allied invasion of Normandy and the destruction of Army Group Centre on the Eastern Front. As I say, hammer his theology, hammer his social beliefs. His war record is largely irrelevant.

#22290: — 04/19 at 01:49 PM
I've always thought that Jesus would have wanted the head of his church to live in a palace and wear a white robe and funny hat.

#22291: PZ Myers — 04/19 at 01:55 PM
Still no one is quibbling with my characterization of him as a zombie. This is getting worrisome. I didn't mean anything serious, but is it possible I've stumbled on the truth? Am I going to be visited by Swiss bearing halberds tonight?

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris

#22292: Andrew — 04/19 at 01:58 PM
Although Wikipedia says that Ratzinger deserted in April 1944, the AP has it as April 1945, "in the final weeks of the war in Europe." See:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=12&u=/ap/pope_ratzinger_profile

#22293: Alon Levy — 04/19 at 01:58 PM
Unless one can be a zombie and a vampire at the same time, many people have disagreed with your characterization in this thread.

Personally I think he is a very much alive zealot.

#22294: PZ Myers — 04/19 at 02:05 PM
By popular demand, I have edited the points in dispute, leaving only the Unquestioned Truth in place.

So why wasn't Sophia appointed? She'd make a great Pope.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris

#22295: — 04/19 at 02:06 PM
My apologies, Andrew. You're right about the date of his desertion.

#22296: Alon Levy — 04/19 at 02:09 PM
I asked on Wikipedia's discussion page whether it was in 1944 or 1945.

#22297: ajmilne — 04/19 at 02:10 PM
Boo yah, atheism is going to be more popular than ever!

Probably true. Note also that the guy's on-the-record comment to the effect that Catholicism is the only true way, and bitching about the former pope's relative ecumenism may also do wonders toward isolating the Vatican from much of the rest of the religious world... Might be wishful thinking, but if one of the effects of this guy's presence is that the conservative Moslem countries and the Vatican have a little more trouble now agreeing on how, exactly, to torpedo reproductive rights at the UN, well, Habemus papam.

('Course, the most reactionary types in some religions and sects may love him anyway, regardless of what he says about their particular brand o' supersitious nuttery, recognizing a kindred spirit and all.)

#22298: — 04/19 at 02:13 PM
Even if Pope Ratzinger doesn't drive millions of people into the welcoming arms of atheism, he'll at least help to diminish the influence of the Catholic church around the world. Any organized religion that refuses to be flexible in the face of a shifting cultural climate is doomed to irrelevance. That's probably why Christianity in general has been so successful all these years.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2005

Random thoughts on the appointment of a new Pope

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