Pharyngula

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Tuesday, July 12, 2005

Rennie vs. Schönborn

John Rennie brings up a whole series of questions prompted by the Schönborn editorial, like this one:

What are the strong scientific alternatives to evolution that you would like to have taught in schools? The cardinal is parroting the standard IDist line that students should be taught about the "inadequacies" of evolution and exposed to other theories that are equally scientific--purely in the interests of better education and intellectual rigor, of course. But IDists never clarify what those alternative theories are. Certainly they don't present them. It is not sufficient to say, "At various times in life's history, some intelligence gave life one or more of the qualities it possesses today." That doesn't even amount to a hypothesis.

Everyone who has kids knows about that irritating phase they go through shortly after they learn to talk where they repeatedly ask "Why?"—and after you answer, they just ask "Why?" again. You usually realize after a while that they aren't really asking out of genuine curiousity, but only because they love to make Daddy jump through hoops for them. I think the ID creationists are playing a similar game: they've got a formula to make the media jump up and respond, but it contains no intellectual content and certainly doesn't lead to any new ideas in biology. They are reduced to mindlessly parroting the same unthinking noise solely for the attention it gets them.

As for my kids, the solution to their bad habit was to either insist that they ask a more specific question, forcing them to think a little bit, or handing them a book and letting them explore to find the answer on their own…which would lead to real questions. I don't think the gang at the Discovery Institute has the maturity, the respectability, the competence, or the integrity of my children, though.


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Comments:
#31794: — 07/12  at  08:01 AM
I have to wonder how the IDers and the Catholic church would respond to a request that the weaknesses of the argument for a god directed creation (a critical reading of the relevant parts of the bible) be taught to students.



#31804: coturnix — 07/12  at  09:26 AM
Why?



#31813: — 07/12  at  11:01 AM
"Why?" is a fair question.

I teach in a community college in Texas; the state that has in its constitution Article 1 - Bill of Rights Section 4 - Religious Tests "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

How is that for double-speak?

Back to your "Why?" I teach biology to undergraduate students and every year when I get to evolution I run into fundamentalist students who were taught in school that the bible is literally true. Maybe not so much in Houston schools but once outside America's fourth largest city that often changes. Teaching evolution is discouraged but teaching religion is not.

Mostly my wondering is out of frustration with poorly educated students and students who don't have a clue about reality.

Fundamentalists clearly feel threatened by evolution and they probably should be. I was just wondering how fundamentalists would respond to the idea of K-12 students being exposed to a cogent argument about the crap in the bible.

Civilization has been badly harmed for centuries by religion and the hate it engenders. I would like to find a way to make god-based religion dry up.

It would be good to look for a more public means of opposing lies with good thinking.



#31834: — 07/12  at  12:42 PM
"Civilization has been badly harmed for centuries by religion and the hate it engenders. I would like to find a way to make god-based religion dry up."

One way may be computer games. Often the mindset of paganism and raising the dead is religious but at least it's not god-based.

It is not organised though. One may jump in by suggesting games like 'A good god is a dead god' (killing major religions gods for points) or 'Punchin' pagans' (spells doesn't work but guns do). I would rather enjoy some of that... grin

Another way must be TV series like Hercules and Xena. Again the mindset are religious but the sentiment seems to be that (non-christian) gods are mostly bad and should be eliminated. Of course that sentiment extends to all religions which the kids should realise. (But don't tell the christians...)



#31846: ekzept — 07/12  at  01:38 PM
Teaching evolution is discouraged but teaching religion is not.

i wonder how much of the off-the-record, read-between-the-lines "guidance" given teachers by their local school administrations comes from that First Commandment of Administrators and Bureaucrats, "Thou shalt avoid all and every controversy."

and i wonder if the IDers, creationists, environmental wackos, und so weiter don't know that and use it.

It is not organised though. One may jump in by suggesting games like 'A good god is a dead god' (killing major religions gods for points) or 'Punchin' pagans' (spells doesn't work but guns do). I would rather enjoy some of that...


i'm not enough of a historian of PC game discography, but there was a game in the past couple of years where you got to play God, including punishing disobedient or unworthy people, rewarding those who worshipped you, and so on.



's avatar #31849: PZ Myers — 07/12  at  01:53 PM
It was called "Black & White". My kids played it for a while, but I guess it must have gotten old fast, since I think they abandoned it after a few weeks.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris



#31855: paperwight — 07/12  at  02:57 PM
There have been a number of "God" games over the years. The two I remember were Populous (and a few sequels) and Black & White. Both were more interesting to the critics / designers than they were to the general public.



#31858: — 07/12  at  03:47 PM
Black and White was cool...but the gameplay got tedious much too quickly. There was also a game out called Sacrifice where you had 5 gods, and you had to choose which gods to ally with for each mission you went on...and they were all largely self-serving and they fought eachother, etc. That was really fun but the learning curve was kind of brutal. Not sure if Sacrifice said much of substance about religion, but it was God-based. grin



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