Pharyngula

Pharyngula has moved to http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/

Thursday, September 16, 2004

Science's review of the US election

Science magazine also has a series of questions addressed to the presidential candidates, and I think they are actually rather better than Nature's—they managed to elicit some clearer, stronger statements from the two that better delineate the differences. I'm not going to say much about it, though, since Chris Mooney is in the process of taking their answers apart. Go read him and enjoy. Among other things, he's showing how Bush is dishonestly fudging his answers.

I do want to mention one thing that pissed me off, though.

Science: Should "intelligent design" or other scientific critiques of evolutionary theory be taught in public schools?

BUSH: The federal government has no control over local curricula, and it is not the federal government's role to tell states and local boards of education what they should teach in the classroom. Of course, scientific critiques of any theory should be a normal part of the science curriculum.

KERRY: I believe that ideology should not trump science in the context of educating our children. Still, public school curriculum is a matter subject to local control. Communities must decide which sound, scientific theories are appropriate for the classroom.

First, it's a bad question. It implies that Intelligent Design creationism is legitimately scientific, and that there is any question about whether scientific criticisms should be excised from the curriculum (the answer to both, obviously, is no). The question should be, "Should the religious ideas with no scientific evidence in their support be taught in public school science classrooms?" That, at least, is a more accurate portrayal of what groups like the Discovery Institute are trying to do.

And look at those answers! You could switch them around and there is no clue who is saying what. "Leave it up to local communities..." Bah. One of the things we have to do on a larger scale is set standards and set general criteria for what schools ought to do. It's particularly bizarre for that arch-hypocrite Bush to make excuses about leaving it up to local school boards when he's been pushing standards with the NCLB. Is this how we're supposed to acquire 100% compliance with the NCLB standards? By teaching kids useless, idiotic drivel so that they can easily meet a very low bar?

And Kerry...Kerry disappoints me. I dearly wish he'd be more fierce when confronted with questions like this. He should have sharply stated that Intelligent Design creationism has absolutely no place in the classroom. Is he afraid he'll alienate the swing wingnuts or something?


Trackback url: http://pharyngula.org/index/trackback/1238/CIZ9GLX0/

Comments:
#6145: — 09/16  at  02:27 PM
I'm surprised Science phrased the question that way (I wonder who the author was?), but it's possible that Bush and/or Kerry don't actually know much of anything about Intelligent Design. In that case, their answers make perfect sense....if you're into political waffle-talk.



#6146: — 09/16  at  02:53 PM
Why should local school boards set their own curricula at all? I'm (on most issues) a fairly strong federalist, but I think that's just silly. It could work if nobody ever left their hometown, I guess, but in a society where people move around, you have to have nationally standardized curricula!

And I have a hard time believing that if some backwards little town in Alabama (no offense to any Alabamans here...just an example) wanted to teach that blacks were genetically inferior to whites that the feds wouldn't step in. How is this any different?



#6147: — 09/16  at  03:28 PM
Um, by the way, ID has been outed once again. (How many times before anyone notices?)

Dembski is moving to the Baptist Theological Seminary in Kentucky. http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=19115

One of the almost-third-rail issues in U.S. education is local control. Alone among the industrialized, or advanced, or "enlightened" nations and economies on Earth, the U.S. does not have a national curriculum -- by law and by tradition.

Among other things, it guarantees that when nuts get power in Washington, they cannot order that ID be taught in place of evolution.



#6148: — 09/16  at  03:44 PM
Bush's talk about favoring local control of schools is the same as when he was running the first time. No one who favors local control of schools seems to have noticed that he immediately acted to have more federal control of schools. Just another example of the big lie. Also, "local control" has a long history, just like "states' rights." The history of the two holds many similarities.



#6149: — 09/16  at  04:54 PM
PZ, I'm disappointed in Kerry's answer to, but not terribly so. I doubt Kerry has any idea what Intelligent Design is. Frankly, I think he has more important things to discuss.

The question is more disappointing than Kerry's answer, as you imply.



's avatar #6155: Ben — 09/16  at  07:46 PM
I'm willing to give Science the benefit of the doubt and believe that it's a trick question to gauge their true knowledge on the subject. It's clear that biology isn't Kerry's strong point or else he would've picked up on it and retorted that it's not a scientific critique of anything, except perhaps the powerful effects of denial.

"The great trouble is that the preachers get the children from six to seven years of age and then it is almost impossible to do anything with them." --Thomas Edison.



#6163: corsair the rational pirate — 09/17  at  05:31 AM
I was saying the same thing myself: "You could switch them around and there is no clue who is saying what." There really isn't all that much difference between the Democans and Republicrats, are there?



#6164: corsair the rational pirate — 09/17  at  05:34 AM
But I guess the supporters of the various candidates are different:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040916/480/wvrs10309162250



#6165: corsair the rational pirate — 09/17  at  05:37 AM
oops:

doesn't seem to work. Go ahead and delete it...



#6182: Eva Young — 09/17  at  09:43 PM
As Creationisms Trojan Horse describes, Ted Kennedy was fooled by the Intelligent Design nonsense also.

Both candidates seemed to use weasle words here.

I'd encourage PZ to go to Kerry's web forums, and give him hell there.



Page 1 of 1 pages

Next entry: There's misogyny, and then there's Alec Rawls

Previous entry: Nature's review of the US election

<< Back to main

Info

email PZ Myers
Search
Archives
UMM—America's best public liberal arts college