#56562: — 01/05  at  09:52 PM
Ereshkigal, I read "pastor of South Tulsa Baptist Church" and somehow ended up with "booked in Tulsa." My bad.

#56572: — 01/05  at  10:49 PM
I've been saying for years, that the most vicious homophobes are closet cases.

Let's hope that Latham finds a good shrink, and learns to accept himself as god made him.

-jcr

#56575: Ereshkigal — 01/05  at  11:26 PM
WatchfulBabbler, hardly a "bad"-- but you did go to a lot of work. I live in Tulsa, and we c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y distinguish ourselves from Oklahoma City most of the time.

We're a little hypersensitive.

#56576: — 01/05  at  11:55 PM
Pastor Latham, meet Mayor West of Spokane, WA (former mayor that is).

#56666: — 01/06  at  01:23 PM
Of course he was "pastoring" to those policemen! He was trying to convince them to not arrest the homosexuals but to "befriend them and convince them that they can be heterosexual"!

#56713: — 01/06  at  04:29 PM
okay you know what.
you guys really take it.
you know what maybe if you
knew the whole story you would
understand. and as a member of south
tulsa baptist church. i have known him
pretty much all of my life. and guess what
he isn't gay. and he has been struggling with
this all his life. so you guys can go suck a cock.
because this site is gay. and everyone else commenting
on here is too.

just go fuck yourselfs.

#56716: PZ Myers — 01/06  at  04:59 PM
That is quite possibly the funniest defense of a homophobe I've seen yet!

#56720: — 01/06  at  05:23 PM
Emma,

If, as you say, the man isn't gay, then what exactly has he beeen "struggling with all his life"?

I'm a straight man myself, and I can tell you from direct, personal knowledge that straight men simply don't have an issue with gays. Truth to tell, we're glad for the reduced competition. I'm sure any of the other straight guys who read PZ's blog would concur.

I'm sorry that your friend is going through a hard time, but the razzing he's get isn't for being gay, it's for being a god damned hypocrite of the first order. He didn't have a choice about his sexual orientation, but he most certainly *did* have a choice about whether to make a career of harassing those who share his orientation.

-jcr

#56721: — 01/06  at  05:24 PM
Yikes! I'm afraid to know how long it took emma to type up that gem.

So, a man soliciting oral sex from another man doesn't make him gay, but because all of us commenting here are gay we should all go engage in oral sex.

Are you a Southern Baptist Theological Seminary student, emma? Because with your skills in logic, you'd be a prized student!

#56723: Dan Nexon — 01/06  at  05:33 PM
Are you sure emma isn't just trying out her poetry on a different audience? The punctuation and line geometry all suggests something of the sort.

#56725: — 01/06  at  05:39 PM
Well, but to Emma, a homophobe is evidently a good person, even if the homophobe in question is a self-proclaimed defender of heterosexuality who also has irresistable homosexual desires he has been "struggling with ... all his life."

The "secret" part of that glorious--but not very successful!--struggle evidently involves Lonnie repeatedly giving in to the very urges that Lonnie and Emma condemn. Lonnie's lack of success in his struggle does not, of course, make him "homosexual" in Emma-world, because Lonnie can always turn to the South Tulsa Baptist Church for "forgiveness," and the ensuing (though unfortunately only temporary)re-heterophication!

The "open" part of Lonnie's struggle, therefore, necessarily requires him to mercilessly castigate the "real" homosexuals of Emma-world--meaning, one gaters, all those who have failed to seek or attain the STBC's "forgiveness" for the "sin" of "giving in" to to their own utterly inoffensive sexual selves.

This seemingly reduces the difference between contemptible gayness and righteous hetero-ness, not to how one actually behaves sexually, but to whether one (repeately) feels guilty enough about one's own behavior to dishonestly keep it secret while trying as hard and as hypocritically as possible to make other people also feel just as bad about themselves. Which "pretty much" reveals the whole charade of Lonnie's homophobia to be nothing more than the most pitiful possible attempt to project upon innocent others the contemptible feelings Larry has internalized for himself.

And, of course, Lonnie feels so bad about himself because some other pitiful idiot projected all this self-disgust outward on Lonnie. And back it goes...

Whether we are atheists, agnostics, or true believers, "good" ol' time religion that wallows in putrescence this deep this deserves nothing but utter and unremitting villification.

#56726: — 01/06  at  05:40 PM
Emma writes, "... and as a member of South Tulsa Baptist Church... go suck a cock... go fuck yourself..."

Wow. If this sort of language is typical of what their congregation finds acceptable, I think they are a long way off the Christian ideal.

#56728: mikey — 01/06  at  05:52 PM
Huh. Looked a little like freeform poetry to me to. Kind of inspired me. So I jotted down my own:

When christians shriek with words so vile
And spew their righteous, angry bile
They show us all what they believe
And trust me, it ain't the bible, Steve
Hatred and Bigotry and Violent Rot
I'm pretty sure that's not what jesus taught
It's not just the anger, but the WORDS they say
It makes ME blush to this very day
For those who think god wants them to hate
And kill the infidel and the apostate
I say let's ask reverand Lonnie a thing or two
Like just what HE thinks would jesus do?

OK, for shear power it can't match emma, or that babe maureen, and it really ain't that clever (except rhyming "apostate"--I'm pretty proud of that), but I couldn't resist..

mikey

#56730: — 01/06  at  06:08 PM
Hehe, yeah "I was set up. I was in the area pastoring to police." This is gold. Excuse me I need to go "pastor" to my big hairy mexican boyfriend (he has fabulous boots!). I got 6.5" of Christ's love right here next to my hairy pussy and I want to make sure that he is filled with Christ's love before the evening is out!

NO I'M SERIOUS!

#56737: — 01/06  at  06:49 PM
"because this site is gay. and everyone else commenting
on here is too."

I'm gay. What of it? I wouldn't offer oral sex to a priest to save my life, though. I might be gay, but I'm not easy.

#56738: MAJeff — 01/06  at  06:58 PM
so you guys can go suck a cock.
because this site is gay. and everyone else commenting
on here is too.

just go fuck yourselfs.

Believe me, if I could physically fuck myself, I'd be sucking a cock right now....hell, i'd never stop.

#56740: — 01/06  at  07:02 PM
I wonder if "emma" is really a guy--and in what sense has she "known" the Dirty Pastor?

#56745: Max Udargo — 01/06  at  08:12 PM
"...it really ain't that clever (except rhyming "apostate"--I'm pretty proud of that)..." - mikey

#56747: — 01/06  at  08:21 PM
I don't know if this emma is legitimate or a hoax meant to make matters worse or at least funnier but everyone here has to realize that these people do not consider homosexuality to be anything more than a lifestyle choice. To her Latham is a victim of diabolical mind conrol from gays who probably seduced him with drugs and alcohol to *choose* to *act* gay for mere sick sex. To them Latham was not born gay but somehow corrupted by sick gays trying to destroy christianity.

Nothing anyone here says will change these people's minds.

MYOB'
.

#56748: julia — 01/06  at  08:24 PM
So the pastor wants to have sex with men, decided he didn't want to do that, has been trying unsuccessfully to avoid doing that to the point where the congregants of his church know about it, and has decided to become "not gay" by, um, dedicating his life to profound dishonesty and loveless anonymous sex?

Of course, the pastor agrees with Emma, and since she appears to feel that disagreeing with her makes you "gay," the pastor is clearly not gay.

He just likes to have dishonest, anonymous, loveless sex with strange men.

Lemme tell you, Emma - loveless, anonymous, dishonest sex doesn't make men gay. Neither does disagreeing with you.

Wanting to have sex with men, on the other hand? Pretty high correlation, toots.

You're a remarkably stupid woman, Emma, and I very much doubt you'd want to have to face Jesus and explain why you decided to cast that stone.

If you believe in him, you know he knows you're not qualified.

#56749: — 01/06  at  08:31 PM
hey emma:

it's not the man's homosexuality (bisexuality?) we're attacking, it's his hypocrisy!

#56751: — 01/06  at  08:37 PM
It has been proposed by some and I wish I could remember where I saw it documented that for a number of people immersed in religious dogma at an very early age there is a conflict between their fantatical devotion to their faith and the realities of their physical condition. For some, discovering that they are gay might simply be a test from god or demonic possession. They will never be able to differentiate between their faith and the fact of their born condition. For them it is the 'born again' condition that matters and in this case Latham probably found himself acting like a drug addict who simply said "once won't be enough to go to hell so maybe I can do it just once, get it out of my system and then I'll know it's all a lie."
These people are in the worst of all worlds because they are having to deal with mental programming vs physical programming.

MYOB'
.

#56752: Jim Jackson — 01/06  at  08:38 PM
I am also a member of Latham's church in Tulsa and I would like to apoligize for "emma's" comments. It is by no means the Christian spirit to react with such anger. It is the Christian spirit to forgive the man for what he has done. His actions in no way diminish the ministry that he led in our church. God holds the ultimate forgiveness. As far as whether or not he is gay is concerning to me. I am a devout Christian, but do not profess to have all the answers to every situation, and I am not sure at what point a person is considered gay. If physical actions have not occurred but desired...is this considered gay or just homosexual tendencies within the person? If a person tried it and did not like it...are they considered gay? If the are bisexual...are they considered gay?

#56759: — 01/06  at  09:15 PM
"As far as whether or not he is gay is concerning to me. I am a devout Christian, but do not profess to have all the answers to every situation, and I am not sure at what point a person is considered gay. If physical actions have not occurred but desired...is this considered gay or just homosexual tendencies within the person? If a person tried it and did not like it...are they considered gay? If the are bisexual...are they considered gay?"

Only he can tell you, if he's inclined to answer honestly and is honest enough with himself to have the answer. Is he turned on by guys? If so, and girls don't do much for him sexually, then he's gay. If he's turned on by both guys and girls in a rough parity, I'd say he's likely bisexual. The sex is an outward expression of the desires, just like having straight sex is an expression of the physical attraction one feels for the opposite gender.

But in my book, soliciting sex from a man is not exactly straight behavior. It might be bisexual behavior. This isn't actually a complicated issue. What is complicated is that he apparently has some religious opinions which may make it harder for him to process and arrive at the real answer.

I should note that having sex with a woman, even being married with a boatload of kids and a happy family life, does not a straight person make. With enough fantasizing, I'm sure I could have sex with a woman and I'm not cognizant of being impotent. Those are the only real prerequisites for a successful procreation. Our culture continues to broadcast this as the preferred (and often only acceptable) path. By contrast, actively seeking some same-sex action is, to my mind, far more diagnostic of homosexuality or bisexuality.

I don't recognize some kind of fuzzy level of homosexual tendencies existing independent of being gay or bisexual. This isn't a TV. It doesn't turn off or change channels whenever one gets curious or bored.

#56775: decrepitoldfool — 01/06  at  10:59 PM
Sounds like the Tulsa church is typical in that it has some very decent people and also some people who are quite defensive and insecure.

Many years ago I was interim pastor of a fundy church and made the suggestion that perhaps the apostle Paul's famous 'thorn in the flesh' was homosexual interest in Timothy. Suffice it to say no one was interested in publically entertaining that possibility even for illustrative purposes.