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Saturday, March 12, 2005

Sullivan. Gah.

Amy Sullivan irritates the hell out of me. She had an article in Salon earlier this week, and as usual, it has just enough validity to interest me, but it was swaddled in so much Christian garbage that you want to throw it all away. The part I can agree with is that she's complaining about the ineffectuality of the religious left; and that's entirely true. The religious left has been an abysmal failure, a simpering collection of timid, ingrown ditherers that has allowed the religious right to stomp all over them. Unfortunately, Sullivan's solution to everything is to encourage the Democratic party to embrace the religious left more strongly.

That's right. The political party that has been weak and half-hearted, allowing conservative thugs to run them over repeatedly, is supposed to acquire vast new strengths by joining hands with the most feeble religious group. Right. And by fusing the properties of soggy noodles and cream of wheat, I will build a strong new material, tougher than titanium.

And Sullivan engages in the kind of historical blindness so common in arrogant Christianity.

It's nearly impossible to page through American history without coming across political causes that were driven either partly or entirely by progressive people of faith -- abolition, women's suffrage, labor reforms of the progressive era, civil rights, and any number of antiwar movements.

Jebus. Somebody get Sullivan a copy of Freethinkers, stat.

Of those struggles listed, only two impress me as having had a significant contribution from a religious perspective: the modern civil rights movement benefitted greatly from the strong and consistent efforts of black Southern churches, and a few fringe religious groups, the Quakers and Jehovah's Witnesses, have also set a good example of conscientious opposition to war. We have a theistic majority, and of course religious people have been important participants, but so have non-religious people…and it seems to me that secular interests have been more consistently on the progressive side than have religious interests. For every church that fought for abolition or suffrage or civil rights, there were two that supported slavery or the oppression of women or the second-rank status of blacks, and a dozen that sat on their thumbs and did nothing. When religion is a motivating force on both sides of the equation, I'll be charitable and ignore the fact that more often than not it has sided with repression, and suggest that we cancel it out as a relevant factor.

As for the suggestion that labor reforms were driven by religious interests—that is an egregious rewriting of history. Labor has long been tarred with the slurs of Communism, Socialism, Atheism, and Anarchism in this country. I refuse to grant the hard earned credit of vociferous Reds to milksop Christians after the fact.

Unfortunately, that's not the only strange deviation from reality in the article.

Those members of the religious left that did remain politically active often seemed like caricatures of left-wing activists, agitating to save baby seals, Arctic wildlife, third-world orphans with only the faintest of biblical appeals marshaled on their behalf. While religious groups were some of the most vocal opponents of the recent war in Iraq, their unique voices got lost within a sea of peace slogans.

Wait, wait…we'd do a better job saving baby seals if the appeals were more biblical? What exactly is she suggesting here: don't waste time on baby seals? Find bible quotes to save baby seals? The religious left would do better if they shouted down those damned secularists tainting the purity of their goals?

And I'm sorry, Ms. Sullivan, but there is nothing at all unique about religious groups. This is America. We get religion with all of our news.

Here, though, is where Sullivan sinks to a new low. Take a look at this comment:

More damningly, to the extent that the religious left continued to exist, it became tied in the public's mind with secularists. "The positions of the religious left and secularists on crucial questions seem indistinguishable," says Joseph Loconte of the Heritage Foundation. "And that hurts them politically."

I don't even need to mention that this progressive Christian is quoting a fellow of the heinously conservative Heritage Foundation approvingly: look at the message. Secularists are bad. It hurts us that they share ideals with us. There is no hiding what she is trying to say, which is that the Democrats need to distance themselves from atheists, agnostics, secular humanists, and freethinkers. This is the kind of divisive idea I'm sure the Heritage Foundation would love to see get wider play in the Democratic party.

Maybe, instead, she should take a look at what those secularists in her party are actually saying and doing. They are supporting civil rights, women's rights, economic fairness, fiscal responsibility, respectful partnerships with the other nations of the world…they are supporting the Democratic party platform. They share her values in the role of America's government, and only differ in that they don't go to church on Sunday, something totally irrelevant to politics. This is "damning"?

I think we secularists should try to praise poor Amy Sullivan. Despite the affliction of her religious background, she has still managed to acquire the good moral values of the majority of freethinkers. It does not hurt us to embrace even people of faith who support our ideals.

Although, I don't know, this kind of lie does test the limits of my tolerance:

The Kerry campaign ran just one television ad that mentioned its candidate's background as an altar boy: It was in Spanish, appearing only on a Spanish-language network. And when the candidate spoke about faith (which he often did, charging that Bush was a "man [who] claims to have faith, but has no deeds"), it was almost always in front of an African-American audience, fueling charges that Kerry's faith was insincere and brought out only for political purposes.

Hey, fellow atheists! Was there anyone of you who was following the political campaign who was not repeatedly informed that Kerry was a Catholic? Who did not hear it from his own mouth on multiple television appearances? In English?

This crap Sullivan is spouting is pure Republican propaganda, the same stuff they were spreading freely during the election, that Bush was the One True Christian and Kerry was a fraud. We know better. Kerry was a standard issue Christian politician, no better or worse on religious issues than most, and he was able to express his religious beliefs in a way that no atheist politician could ever hope to do.

Secular progressives voted for him anyway, with little concern about his faith. We also voted for Jimmy Carter, probably the most sincerely Christian president of recent times. If Barack Obama runs for president some day, even the most atheistical liberals (like me!) will vote for him without hesitating over his Christianity.

Can anyone imagine Sullivan voting for a secular humanist running on even an impeccably progressive platform?

It seems to me that what the Democratic party ought to do is exactly the opposite of what Sullivan suggests. Let's embrace our inclusive secularism. We want Christians and Jews and Moslems and atheists to all participate in running this country.

Let's all make freethought a guiding principle of the party. Freethought doesn't mean anti-god-belief, although it can include it; it does imply anti-religious thought, though, in the sense of opposing organized religion. We do have a tradition of anti-authoritarianism in America that is almost as strong as the anti-intellectualism that the Republicans have tapped into so effectively—why not use it? Mobilize people by appealing to that "rugged individualism" we all like, tell 'em we don't need no stinkin' popes or preachers or church elders or Falwells or Robertsons to instruct us in how to think about god. Encourage personal religious belief. Get the televangelists out of office. Get the sanctimonious prigs off our backs.

I think there's a germ of a message in there that would draw in a good number of those rural red-staters and NASCAR fans, too.


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Comments:
#18446: — 03/12  at  11:52 AM
If the religious left's being on the same side as a tiny handful of secularists is damaging to public acceptance of goals, why isn't the religious right's unity with Pharisees and evil damaging their acceptance with the public?



#18447: coturnix — 03/12  at  11:53 AM
Amen!



's avatar #18450: Chris Clarke — 03/12  at  12:15 PM
Those members of the religious left that did remain politically active often seemed like caricatures of left-wing activists, agitating to save baby seals, Arctic wildlife, third-world orphans with only the faintest of biblical appeals marshaled on their behalf.


This is wrong on so many different levels:
<ul>
<li>In a decade and a half of being in the employ of environmental groups, I've seen absolutely no involvement in "Arctic wildlife" and "baby seal" issues from the religious left... except that religious left groups sometimes use those issues to organize conferences designed to being more environmentally-concerned people into the religious left, without success.</li>
<li>caricatured "left wing" activiists decry the baby seals focus of much of the animal protection movement - and I'm saying that as a left winger who works for a baby seal protecting group.</li>
<li>I am unaware of any of the religious organizations who do "third world orphan" work having a particular left slant, at least in their mission statements (though certainly that kind of work is likely to attract liberal-left staff)</li>
<li>a majority of Americans identify themselves as environmentalists, but Sullivan would have the religious left abandon that constituency - if it was theirs to abandon, which it is not - and start spouting some untested fringe doctrine in order to be more successful?</li>
</ul>
As for the suggestion that labor reforms were driven by religious interests—that is an egregious rewriting of history.


I wonder if she's thinking of the (noble) work of people like Dorothy Day and Ammon Hennacy, and imagining that they weren't the only radical Christian organizers in the left labor movement.

"I do not think we should antagonize the religious when it is not warranted, though I think we should be willing to do so whenever it is.”
-- Glen Davidson



's avatar #18451: Chris Clarke — 03/12  at  12:16 PM
Forgot to close the list. sorry.

"I do not think we should antagonize the religious when it is not warranted, though I think we should be willing to do so whenever it is.”
-- Glen Davidson



#18453: — 03/12  at  12:21 PM
Maybe because, for believers, unbelief is a virtually automatic disqualifier? Perhaps the chasm separating believers from unbelievers is different in kind from the differences among various theologies? The "religious left" may be different from the "religious right," but the common denominator is that both are believers, and maybe this trumps unbelief.



#18454: — 03/12  at  12:23 PM
I can't help thinking that these arguments against liberal support of separation of church and state are identical to what Southern Democrats must have said in the 1950s and 60s. "Our causes have been tainted by association with the negroes; when people hear of welfare, they immediately think about how MLK supports it. Won't anyone consider the fact that MLK embodies values that are inimical to American culture?" In twenty years Americans will look at articles such as Sullivan's with the same contempt they look at rationalizations of segregation now. Either that or they won't look at these articles at all because the religious right will have instituted a totalitarian state and banned them.



#18456: covington — 03/12  at  12:48 PM
There was a strange ommission in her article about the only real left wing political work officially done by religious in the past 30 years - organizing against the death squads in central America in the 80's. It's an odd ommission, since the supporters of the death squads, temporarily driven back by the Iran-Contra scandal, now control every branch of the federal government. You'd think she'd talk more about Archbishop Romero, about Desmond Tutu, instead of painting any religious democrats as ineffectual.

Why wouldn't she discuss that elephant in the room, unless it contradicts her underlying agenda?



#18459: Hank Fox — 03/12  at  01:09 PM
I've been warily watching the emergence of "christian environmentalists" over the past ten years or so.

I was happy in the beginning with certain people FINALLY saying "God wants us to protect the Earth," -- thinking, "Hey, great, more allies," -- but also mildly disturbed that their motivation was religious rather than, um, rational.

Just recently, though, can't remember where I saw it, there was a strong statement from a group of evangelists to the effect of protecting God's gift to us.

And I have this sudden sinking feeling that godders are about to make a grab for the environmental movement.

Goodbye sound reasons for protecting wildlife and wildlands, fisheries and atmosphere.

Hello more and more and more Biblical bullshit.

"You secular environmentalists, y'all move on out the way now, y'hear? We're gonna be setting up a revival tent over by them redwoods and we cain't have y'all carryin' them signs out here where the cameras is gonna ... Why hello, Brother Falwell, come right on in! We got a seat raht up front for y'all! We gonna have ourselves an old-time, camp meetin', fahr-and-brimstone sermon about God's fresh, pure water! And we're gonna explain to all good Americans about the environmental evils of that there homosexual marriage, and how the same people who do them abortions is destroyin' this country's god-given rivers and streams."



#18461: DarkSyde — 03/12  at  01:25 PM
The point is twofold PZ: 1 There are a lot of religious voters, they're they vast majority, 2) The core values of the Democratic Party are much more consistent with the tenets of Christianity as taught by Jesus in the new testament.

All we have to do to get rid of the neo-religious right is carve off a few percentage points form them. Right now, the right does an excellent job of painting democrats as anti-God; when in fact, democrats tend to be more tolrant and more supportive of the principles of liberty that encourage religious diversity. It is a fact that Jesus in the NT preached to help the sick, the poor, and to shun welath and power. There are something like 2000 verses mandating this in the NT. There is I believe about two verses condemning homosexuality, and they're not by Jesus, and one or two mentioning abortion in a pretty casual way.

So it's not about kissing up to religion, or changing the democratic party in anyway, it's about getting that message out to the religious voters, the message itself is true: Jesus was a raging liberal, and told everyone else they should also be a raging liberal in no uncertain terms.

Although getting this message out, framing it and so forth, is obviously not something folks such as myself can help with much. My view is that all religion is based on mythology and kind of silly. But if we were to paly into the legend and spin of the Neo-Christian rightwing, that democrats=atheists, we'd never win a single election anywhere.



#18464: Dan S. — 03/12  at  02:11 PM
"And by fusing the properties of soggy noodles and cream of wheat, I will build a strong new material, tougher than titanium."

Curses! You've discovered my evil plan!!"

"What exactly is she suggesting here . . . Find bible quotes to save baby seals?"

And my backup evil plan! Damn you, Pharyngula! Damn you to . . .um . . .Heck!!



#18466: — 03/12  at  02:34 PM
As I read 'liberal' screeds like Amy Sullivan's bit, I keep reading a sub-text of "I'm a liberal, but ..." or "I used to be a liberal, until ...". Remeber reading troll posts that start in that manner? As if progressive ideas are offensive even to liberals?

I guess it beats working for a living.



#18469: — 03/12  at  03:25 PM
"Of those struggles listed, only two impress me as having had a significant contribution from a religious perspective: the modern civil rights movement benefitted greatly from the strong and consistent efforts of black Southern churches, and a few fringe religious groups, the Quakers and Jehovah's Witnesses, have also set a good example of conscientious opposition to war."

I think you're seriously downplaying the contribution of religious abolitionists, particularly people like Henry Ward Beecher and some of the organizers of the New England Emigrant Aid Society. Hell, Beecher Bibles helped keep Kansas free.



#18474: — 03/12  at  04:59 PM
Amy's ideas might not be good. I don't find her stuff worth reading. But be careful not to believe that religious people can be ignored or mocked. Voters are 90% religious in the US.



#18475: — 03/12  at  06:07 PM
Having dealt with liberal Christians politically, I try to focus on the liberal ideals I have in common with them, rather than the religous differences. I wish Amy Sullivan would do the same.



's avatar #18476: PZ Myers — 03/12  at  06:32 PM
No, I'm not downplaying their contribution at all: the thing is it was counterbalanced by the extensive use of the bible to justify slavery, and the fact that many of the abolitionists were also freethinkers who were vilified by the religious of the time.

Mainly, my point is that religion is usually a force used to maintain the status quo. With few exceptions, it is not a force for change.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris



#18478: — 03/12  at  08:30 PM
Frankly, I think it's up to the religious left, and center, to start getting very loud in denouncing what conservative Christians (in particular) do and say. The term "Christian" has become shorthand for "extreme conservative" and that's because the left and center religious folks have let it happen. It's in their own self interest too, since they're the ones getting tarred with the mislabelling.

And I say this because my own mother is one of these people who should be speaking up. Last year I asked her what she thought of Bush and she immediately replied "He's a horse's ass". But when I also said that people with religious beliefs like hers should speak up against the extremists who call themselves Christian and presume to speak for all Christians, she disagreed (offering no particular reason). They need to be speaking from pulpits and in newspapers, everywhere. They have a point to make in that that others cannot make, and not making it hurts them, hurts their religion, and hurts our country.



's avatar #18481: Ken Cope — 03/12  at  09:44 PM
The unspoken assumption, QQ, is that it's not ok to speak from the left, unless you're from the religious left, as if the left is ok only if smuggled in by a Christian.

Last week on San Francisco's AM station KGO I heard an interview with a leftist Christian by the name of Jim Wallis, whom Howard Dean has employed as a consultant. The remark that closed the interview was (paraphrasing), "the appropriate response to the right is not more secularism, but more religion," left me just as cold as Amy Sullivan leaves PZ.

Jim Wallis has a book that's selling, here's another interview with him: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/106/54.0.html



#18485: — 03/13  at  01:08 AM
"Mainly, my point is that religion is usually a force used to maintain the status quo. With few exceptions, it is not a force for change."

I disagree. Religion is often a powerfully transformative force: witness the social reorganizations sparked by the Protestant reformation and the sweeping changes that came with spread of Islam in the seventh and eighth centuries.



#18486: Linkmeister — 03/13  at  01:26 AM
Mr. Fox, you suggested: And I have this sudden sinking feeling that godders are about to make a grab for the environmental movement.

Well, your fears were well founded.



#18488: — 03/13  at  01:40 AM
Increasing the visibility of the religious left might blunt the accusation that liberals are out to destroy religion, take away everybody's bibles and so forth. Unfortunately, the religious right may be so wedded to their paranoia and sense of victimhood that it would make no difference.

It's unlikely that evangelists are going to have any more impact on environmental issues than they have had upon issues that mitigate the plight of the poor, since both involve money, the true religion of the powers that be.



's avatar #18490: Ben — 03/13  at  02:33 AM
I've been warily watching the emergence of "christian environmentalists" over the past ten years or so.

Christian environmentalism? What, do they support the ratification of the Kyoto Protocol in order to prevent greenhouse gases from further damaging the firmament?

"The great trouble is that the preachers get the children from six to seven years of age and then it is almost impossible to do anything with them." --Thomas Edison.



#18491: — 03/13  at  05:34 AM
I disagree. Religion is often a powerfully transformative force: witness the social reorganizations sparked by the Protestant reformation and the sweeping changes that came with spread of Islam in the seventh and eighth centuries.

If by "social reorganization" you mean "mass murder," you're right. Both Muhammad and Martin Luther were ruthless murderers, who in two different ways provided the seeds of fascism - Muhammad by promising paradise to everyone who died in the name of Jihad, and Martin Luther by almost single-handedly creating nationalism, especially German nationalism, which continued unchanged from his time into the early 1940s, with deadly consequences.

But be careful not to believe that religious people can be ignored or mocked. Voters are 90% religious in the US.

First, the actual figure is about 50%, the percentage of church attenders in the US. The rest are not or nominally religious. A baseball player who thanks God for succeeding to bat over the fence is not in the same category as a devout Protestant who goes to church every Sunday.

Second, the Democrats never have mocked and don't mock religious voters. When they say they support separation of church and state, they mean that they think everyone should choose his own brand of Christianity, with Judaism and lately Islam thrown in for good measure. If they cared about atheists they wouldn't vote to condemn the Pledge decision virtually unanimously. They don't and people like Jim Wallis and Amy Goodman know that.

Third, I suspect you wouldn't use the same political considerations when talking about any other group's civil rights. The only people nowadays who say it was a bad idea for the Democrats to embrace the civil rights movement because it hurt them in the South are veiled white supremacists. The people who chided first-wave feminism for trying to achieve the radical goal of votes for women are now perceived as extreme rationalizers. Those who support playing politics with equal rights for gays and/or atheists, however, are praised for their pragmatism. That's a textbook case of double standard.

The point is twofold PZ: 1 There are a lot of religious voters, they're they vast majority, 2) The core values of the Democratic Party are much more consistent with the tenets of Christianity as taught by Jesus in the new testament.

You can't discuss truth and politics at the same time. You can discuss politics, i.e. why it's good politics to embrace left-wing fundamentalists (who are in a different category from liberals who happen to be religious; Wallis and Goodman are both firmly in the former category). In that case, it doesn't matter what Jesus really said; what matters is how liberalism can be marketed to religious voters using religious language. Alternatively, you can discuss the truth, i.e. why Christianity fits comfortably within liberalism. But you can't combine the two and then draw conclusions from each while looking for the other as support. PR and strategy don't mix with reality, except for the fact that in some cases, reality is obvious enough that ignoring it is bad strategy.

In terms of reality, you're dead wrong: fundamentalism and liberalism don't mix. Martin Luther King represents a minority of liberals who helped people using Christianity as their primary motivation; a more typical case is William Jennings Bryan, who helped screw science education in the United States by taking a strong anti-evolutionist stance in the Scopes trial. Religious democrats like MLK are rare, with the more common type of religious leftists being totalitarians who fight poverty, as opposed to religious rightists, totalitarians who don't care about poverty.

In particular, look at gay rights. The staple of the religious left, black churches, has been as much against gay marriage as the Christian Coalition. Furthermore, because of their minority status, blacks get away with a lot more than whites can ever hope to, so black preachers can call homosexuality sinful with no qualifications without needing to fear that political correctness will rein them. Ann Coulter once made the observation that if only blacks stopped voting their pocketbooks, they'd become an entire race of Ann Coulters.

An even more sweeping example is separation of church and state, which is both a civil right and a civil liberty. The only people who support it in more than empty promises, opposition to the inclusion of "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance being the litmus test, are atheists and a handful of religious fellow travelers like Barry Lynn. The mainstream left, in contrast, was apoplectic after the 9th Circuit Court's decision, and raced the religious right to condemn the decision in a rush that surpass even segregationists' opposition to Brown vs. Board of Education.



#18492: — 03/13  at  07:45 AM
If Pat Robertson declared global warming to be a threat that the U.S., as the chief producer of CO2, had to address and that we should sign on to the Kyoto Protocol, I'd be shocked (and a bit suspicious), but I'd also be pleased to hear it.

The only way that the environmental movement can be taken away by any faction is if they're allowed to.



's avatar #18494: PZ Myers — 03/13  at  08:58 AM
To clarify one thing, I think it would be wonderful to have the religious left more actively involved in progressive causes, and helping to stomp down the religious right. What I resent is the implicit attitude in Sullivan's article that secularism is wrong, that what we should do is replace an incipient fundamentalist theocracy with a liberal Christian theocracy, and the dismissive attitude towards the contributions of freethinkers in American history.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris



#18495: Hank Fox — 03/13  at  11:01 AM
"The only way that the environmental movement can be taken away by any faction is if they're allowed to."

Yes and no.

Yes: I worry that a possible transition will be so gradual that other greens will sit and let it happen, realizing too late what they've allowed in. Like the moderate Republicans woke up too late to notice who was suddenly in charge.

No: If godders get lots of press for "Jesus wants us to save the Earth" and if eventually they're the ONLY ones who can get press -- thanks to an exclusive lock on Christian TV and radio (as well as Thank-you-Jesus fellow-traveler musicians, politicians, sports figures, newspaper publishers, etc.) -- then they'll be driving the environmental movement, with or without the traditional core of supporters.



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