Pharyngula

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Thursday, January 05, 2006

That curious religious asymmetry

mine tragedy

The awful, tragic mining accident and the erroneous media response brings something into high relief. Greg Saunders noticed:

I can't let the Boston Herald's awful (and in retrospect, horribly inappropriate) headline go without comment. Now that we know the twelve miners were killed, does this mean America's prayers weren't answered? Just like gambling addicts remember their big wins but not their losses, the fate of the twelve miners has transformed from a faith-inspiring act of God to another horrible tragedy in which it's impolite to mention religion at all. Cute little sayings like "the Lord works in mysterious ways" are cop-outs for the logical conclusions that many of us draw from experiences like this. If something fantastic and improbable can be used as proof that there's a benevolent god, doesn't the reverse point toward the conclusion that a higher power is indifferent at best? If you believe in a god that could have saved these men's lives (which I don't, btw), why didn't he? People are quick to throw around the word "miracle" when something wonderful happens, so what the hell do we call this?

I'd like to see that newspaper issue a retraction: "God curses good people; ignores prayers". It will never happen. One of the engines that drives religious belief is the theological ratchet that absolves gods of blame and grants them only responsibility for the good things, or if god is given credit for an affliction, at least the blame is placed on the victim. It's a clever racket, preying on people's desire to believe in a higher benevolence, and promoted even by secularists, who are reluctant to point to tragedies as signs of a lack of cosmic kindness. It's a kind of godly file-drawer effect.

Some of us refuse to grant them that ability to hide their hypocrisy away, though, as noted on Butterflies and Wheels:

"Society bends over backward to be accommodating to religious sensibilities but not to other kinds of sensibilities," says Richard Dawkins, an evolutionary biologist and outspoken atheist. "If I say something offensive to religious people, I'll be universally censured, including by many atheists. But if I say something insulting about Democrats or Republicans or the Green Party, one is allowed to get away with that. Hiding behind the smoke screen of untouchability is something religions have been allowed to get away with for too long."

I think they're going to get away with it again, too.


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Comments:
's avatar #56413: — 01/05  at  11:16 AM
Well, in the case of Nature's parody, he got several more. Yep, that must be it. No one can seriously be so offended by the atheist option. grin



#56414: BronzeDog — 01/05  at  11:16 AM
Hey, militant atheist! What hope do you offer?

I'm not sure if I qualify as "militant", but one of many hopes I could offer is that we could learn better mine construction by learning from this tragedy. I was really disgusted with the people claiming the last group of miners to survive one of these accidents was because of a miracle, when clearly it was human knowledge that saved them: Surveyors calculated the highest spot the trapped miners could get to. Drill parts were quickly sent over, thanks to the cooperation of several human beings. A small elevator was constructed years prior, thanks to human foresight.

Theistic intervention is the philosophy that seems to advocate hopelessness: It says we can only be saved from disaster based on whether or not the deity got off the right side of his bed today.

You know, all you guys do is doom and gloom. Doom and Gloom. No hope. World is harsh. Life's a bitch and then you die.

The philosophy of Eeyore.

I presume "all you guys" refers to fundamentalist theists.

Let the people that have lost their loved one’s be.

We aren't pestering them. The people who seem to be saying they weren't worthy of being rescued by an allegedly omnibenevolent being are.

My stance is "This is terrible. Now let's see what we can do to prevent it from ever happening again."

You offer nothing.

Liar.



#56415: — 01/05  at  11:19 AM
Pastors do this every single day. If you go to some church to "get saved", you'll hear the Good News of Jesus. Which I don't buy into, by the way.

I say, if the Pastors want to be 100% honest, let 'em start at Leviticus. Don't screw around. Let people who have not yet heard the "Good News!" start off with horrible news.

Leviticus is the book that gave me my final push from religion. I've been rational ever since. Now that IS good news.

I'm sure lots of Christians prayed for Katrina to veer left or right. That went well, eh?



's avatar #56417: — 01/05  at  11:25 AM
The Boston Herald never said it was a real miracle but that it was a "Miner Miracle". True oracles, like Delphi and the Herald, speak in riddles and metaphors.

Quod natura non sunt turpia



's avatar #56418: — 01/05  at  11:27 AM
NatureSelectedMe wrote-

Hey, militant atheist! What hope do you offer?


What do atheists offer?

The idea that human ingenuity,reason and imagination
provide a better reason to live than placing your hopes
in a made-up deity.

Again with the "atheists believe in nothing" line.....

It is not atheists that are taking advantage
of people who have questions about a reason to live....



's avatar #56419: — 01/05  at  11:29 AM
Or sarcasms.

Quod natura non sunt turpia



#56420: — 01/05  at  11:29 AM
Yes the universe is pitilessly indifferent to the struggles and whims of Homo sapiens but so fucking what?

Absolutely right!!

We are alive, we get to experience the phenomenon that is living as a conscious, sentient being (at least most of us do!).

It isn't the atheist whining about life being a bitch, it's the theist who is ever hoping for that greener pasture. "Oh woe is me this life is so hard! Perhaps my invisible superbuddy will make me a better one.". Fuck that, and fuck anyone that thinks it. (Controversial? You betcha!) Celebrate the life you HAVE, not some arrant fiction you can never acheive outside of a fantasy.

All splendidly put! Your judicious use of the word 'fuck' plus the HL Mencken closer just made it better!

I suspect that NSM's comments were not a parody. His sentiments remind me strongly of the fundie notion that atheists can't be moral or lead decent lives without the ever-present theat of a vindictive deity.



#56421: — 01/05  at  11:36 AM
Actually, polytheism almost always makes more sense then monotheism.
True. It just doesn't generate nearly as much revenue.



#56423: — 01/05  at  11:39 AM
One of the engines that drives religious belief is the theological ratchet that absolves gods of blame and grants them only responsibility for the good things, or if god is given credit for an affliction, at least the blame is placed on the victim.

Same as any other abusive relationship, really.



#56424: — 01/05  at  11:46 AM
I wonder if another reason (Besides Christianity's ubiquity) that American atheists attack christianity more often then other religions is that it just plain makes less sense then other faiths.

Doubt it. I think it's just that christianity is the dominant game in the West, and christians are the people in America who will try and pressure you into converting, and who will insult you if you don't get with the program. I can think of several other religions that make just as little sense. They're just not well represented here.



#56428: — 01/05  at  11:56 AM
"I'm sure lots of Christians prayed for Katrina to veer left or right. That went well, eh? "

Half prayed for right, half for left -- the invisible man's only option to please everyone was a direct hit. Makes sense to me.



#56429: aidan — 01/05  at  12:06 PM
you've made a lot of great points here... except that you've left out a thorough consideration of satan. satan is a big red dude with ripping muscles who lives in the fires of a place called hell.



#56430: — 01/05  at  12:08 PM
"Half prayed for right, half for left -- the invisible man's only option to please everyone was a direct hit."

But it wasn't a direct hit--at least not on New Orleans. Katarina did veer off a bit and hit Mississippi. So were the prayers answered, except that people prayed for the wrong thing? They should have prayed for miraculously stronger levees. But really wasn't keeping the levees in working order the responsibility of humanity, specifically the Army Corp of Engineers? For that matter, god's not the one driving SUVs, building factories, and otherwise burning fossil fuels, leading to global warming and worse hurricaines. On the other hand, god's not the one who tracked the hurricaine, allowing for the evacuation of most of New Orleans and the Gulf coast. Credit and blame both lie with humanity. The sooner we stop trying to push both off on our invisible friend the better off we'll be.



#56431: — 01/05  at  12:11 PM
This was a terrible tragedy (likely preventable, according to reports of past company violations), and I feel very sorry for the people who lost loved ones. And, I'm sure Pat Robertson will say that 12 of the 13 people must have been gay.



#56432: — 01/05  at  12:13 PM
I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope for any future decrease in the prevalence of silly belief systems or the ridiculous amount of respect accorded them. (Even in countries far more "secular" than the US the great majority of people are substance dualists of one kind or another, even if no longer one of the traditional varieties. Mortality apparently is too painful to contemplate.) Rational thought does not come easily to us because humans are cognitively quite screwed up (a nice instance of unintelligent design! Though, to be fair, some of our irrational mental algorithms may have been adaptive for hunter-gatherers) as shown, for example, in some famous experiments by the psychologists Kahneman and Tversky. And a strong propensity to believe in invisible friends is a part of the mess, presumably somehow having arisen as a byproduct of other mental functions. On top of this biological substrate, religious memes are notoriously virulent and self-reinforcing. As long as there are people, most of them will believe one or another kind or weird shit.



#56433: — 01/05  at  12:14 PM
you've made a lot of great points here... except that you've left out a thorough consideration of satan. satan is a big red dude with ripping muscles who lives in the fires of a place called hell.

Good point. I also hear he has a tail, horns, a pitchfork, and, usually, a goatee. A 'man of wealth and taste', supposedly.

I also heard something about some guy in a church who married his sister, but that may just be apocryphal.



's avatar #56434: PZ Myers — 01/05  at  12:17 PM
Blame Texas. The Texans must have outprayed Mississippians, pushing the hurricane slightly eastward.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris



#56438: — 01/05  at  12:29 PM
I'm not sure any of the monotheistic religions really believe in only one god. They all seem to recognize two powerful supernatural beings - one good, and one evil; one they worship, the other they hate - and that gets them off the hook of theodicy, at least partly. I'm not sure how that really is monotheism.



#56439: — 01/05  at  12:32 PM

#56394: NatureSelectedMe — 01/05 at 10:43 AM
Hey, militant atheist! What hope do you offer?

You know, all you guys do is doom and gloom. Doom and Gloom. No hope. World is harsh. Life's a bitch and then you die.

The philosophy of Eeyore.

Let the people that have lost their loved one’s be. You offer nothing.

Hey gullibe theist! Some guy in Nigeria is offering me a whole lot of money, just for helping him out a bit. Isn't that a great deal? He's offering me so much, and isn't that what it's all about?



#56440: — 01/05  at  12:35 PM
Acutally I think Texas got off relatively lightly because it has more pull with the big red dude; after all he has so many employees in the Texas Republican Party.



#56441: — 01/05  at  12:37 PM
And one thing the atheistic view doesn't offer is the threat of eternal damnation awaiting sinners or the unsaved. I'm sure that there's more than one grieving family member worried right now that their loved one not only wasn't "saved" from the mine, but also that he wasn't "Saved" from eternal torture in hell. This idea would worry me far more than idea that my loved one had simply stopped existing, and that, for better or worse, they would no longer feel pain. So it's not like religion offers the grieving just solace - it also makes many grieving people suffer far more, needlessly. How is that helpful?



's avatar #56443: — 01/05  at  12:41 PM
"On top of this biological substrate"

Or built into it; religion has been with us for such a long time so one may suspect that it could be an effect of evolution (poor IDiots!) or a phenomena that have effects on our evolution.

"religious memes are notoriously virulent and self-reinforcing"

Interestingly put. So in analogy with addictive harmful drugs one could think that in a sane society they should be subjected to preventive measures.

"As long as there are people, most of them will believe"

What we can do is expose evil and unjust methods used, as PZ does so admirably. That would drive down the frequency of affecteds down to the natural level.



#56446: — 01/05  at  12:49 PM
Interestingly put. So in analogy with addictive harmful drugs one could think that in a sane society they should be subjected to preventive measures. Dawkins has said this quite forthrightly in one of his essays, at least so far as the education of children is concerned. I'm not holding my breath, but I certainly inoculated my own child. Not that I needed to try all that hard- NOBODY is going to tell her what to think. ;)



#56447: — 01/05  at  12:51 PM
Acutally I think Texas got off relatively lightly because it has more pull with the big red dude; after all he has so many employees in the Texas Republican Party

Good point. Roky Erickson once said that because he came from Texas he was more knowledgeable about the Devil than other people were.



#56448: — 01/05  at  12:51 PM
So Phelps and "godhatesfags" are going to the hills of West Virginia to picket funerals, huh?

One could hope that the evil bastard ends up at the bottom of a mineshaft himself.....


And Hurricanes Katrina and Rita both were creations of Allah aimed at Crawford, Texas. Big A just has lived in the desert so long he's forgotten how to aim the things properly over water.



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