Pharyngula::Thugs for God

Pharyngula has moved to http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/

Thursday, November 10, 2005

Thugs for God

PZ Myers • 113 Comments (last page)

Hey, gang, this quote from Pat Robertson is not a joke.

On today’s 700 Club, Rev. Pat Robertson took the opportunity to strongly rebuke voters in Dover, PA who removed from office school board members who supported teaching faith-based “intelligent design” and instead elected Democrats who opposed bringing up the possibility of a Creator in the school system’s science curriculum.
Rev. Robertson warned the people of Dover that God might forsake the town because of the vote.
“I’d like to say to the good citizens of Dover. If there is a disaster in your area, don’t turn to God, you just rejected Him from your city. And don’t wonder why He hasn’t helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I’m not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that’s the case, don’t ask for His help because he might not be there.”

I like it. The message is clear, it's not hard to figure it out…Christianity is like an extortion racket, see, and if you don't cough up, well, Lew here might have a little accident with your car, or your house, or your little girl. And then Mr Big wouldn't be able to do nothin' for you. He doesn't mean nothing by it, he likes you, see, but if you don't show him a little respect, you can't expect him to trouble himself with your worries, OK? Me and Vinnie'll be by tomorrow, and you will have that little donation ready.

Trackback url: http://pharyngula.org/index/trackback/3342/aRF9uLJH/

Comments:

#48425: — 11/11 at 03:55 PM
Harry, I am unclear on how Robertson destroys people other than the example you cite, which is despicable provided he knew the circumstances. I am aware however of his many "good works" to help the poor and disenfrachised through Operation Blessing. I have witnessed this firsthand,having spent a good number of my career years to date in Social Work ,Education and Advocacy . To be fair , I must also state that these monies were given without strings attached to a large number of Community based Grassroots Organizations including a large number of organizations dealing with Migrant Farmworkers, Homeless and Drug Issues. And No , I was not a member of his Organization or even a big supporter of Robertson.

#48426: — 11/11 at 04:01 PM
Rev.Schmitt, Making a judgement call is not dogmatic?

#48428: — 11/11 at 04:10 PM
Rev.Schmitt, You state that just because the Nazi's have done something doesn't automatically mean it's bad. I agree so, therefore if right wing Christian fundamentalists do such things does it mean that they are more wrong or evil than Jews , Muslims, other religions , Marilyn Manson or liberal exponants of evolution that engage in such intolerance?

#48429: — 11/11 at 04:22 PM
Rev. Schmitt, One other question . How do you determine who is rational and intelligent? What is your measuring stick/criteria? Is it based upon whether a person agrees or disagrees with your worldview? I am certain that you realize that there are other worldviews that will disagree with yours (Native American,Aboriginal,African,to name a few).Does this mean that these nations are not rational or intelligent because they acknowledge a creator?

#48430: — 11/11 at 04:37 PM
I am unclear on how Robertson destroys people

He used Operation Blessing's charitable Rwanda drive as a front to fund his diamond mining business in Zaire. He constantly lies about science for his own political and monetary gain. He constantly lies about politics and foreign governments to further his own political and monetary aims (eg, compare his views on Charles Taylor and Hugo Chavez, what they have actually done, and what he stood to gain from American lenience or pressure, respectively.) He has called for murder and genocide. He has harassed feminists and homosexuals, and agreed with Jerry Falwell that they were the cause of the September 11 attacks. He blames natural disasters on the values, sexual orientation and opinions of human beings. He is a hate mongerer, as I said.

Making a judgement call is not dogmatic?

No.

And yes Dr Thom, I think that anyone gleefully pronouncing the possible deaths of their countrymen for no reason other than the fact that they are not treating his religion as scientifically established fact is a disgusting excuse for a person. As Dr Myers said, he treats religion as an extortion racket (quite literally in the case of Operation Blessing.)

-Schmitt.

#48431: Oderus Ungerus — 11/11 at 04:50 PM
dr.thom
"Why are you reacting? "God"doesn't "exist"in your world."

Why do you keep trolling the comments?

#48432: — 11/11 at 04:58 PM
Rev. Schmitt, Was kann ich sagen? If accusations are made then, there must be proof. I am unaware of the diamond mining operation but, I do believe that religion must not be comingled with American-style or any other Capitalism. It is also important to not make assertions without proof.However, I do not view the actions of one or even many individuals as proof that Jesus and his teachings were meaningless or without value. Nor do I view the actions of any person as proof positive that "christianity" is fraudulent and if we really want to discuss genocide and murder, wasn't that how North America was "subdued"?It was through the genocide of it's indigenous peoples? Everyone living in N.A., who isn't indigenous ,has benefited from that genocidal activity. The survivors still live in internment camps that are known as Reservations. Pat didn't think up that one.

#48433: — 11/11 at 04:58 PM
Hey "Dr." Thom,

It is you Neo-Christian Dominionists who are the moral relativists. You support Pat Robertson and his violating the commandments against murder and lying, and his support of the vicious criminal dictator Charles Taylor.

Go to Hell, "Dr." Thom. A warm spot has been reserved for you. You make me want to puke...all over you.

#48436: — 11/11 at 05:08 PM
tom3, I have no idea what you are talking about but, you are a very disrespectful and hate filled person.You make vile judgements and are a reactionary. You react with violence when I am only discussing.I have an earned Doctorate, you sound as if you have a Thug Education.

#48437: — 11/11 at 05:14 PM
Dr Thom,

Pat Robertson's little Zaire operation is a hilarious part of public record.

However, I do not view the actions of one or even many individuals as proof that Jesus and his teachings were meaningless or without value.

Straw man, no one said any different.

...if we really want to discuss genocide and murder, wasn't that how North America was "subdued"?It was through the genocide of it's indigenous peoples?

The biggest in history, yes. But this is some weird kind of tu quoque which assumes I agree with the genocide commited by your ancestors.

And I raise your doctorate with my ordination at the Universal Life Church.

-Schmitt.

#48438: Sir Oolius — 11/11 at 05:17 PM
ah, don't you guys know that he was just citing the Bible?

http://tinyurl.com/7rqcy

#48439: — 11/11 at 05:23 PM
What Schmitt says is well known. If you don't know it, and appear not to be curious, then you can take your earned doctorate and wrap fish in it. It cannot be worth anything.

How many helpless, mentally ill women does Robertson have to destroy before he qualifies as evil?

In my book, one. But there are others. And I'm only talking at the purely personal level, not about the big-time crimes that Kagehi and Schmitt are concerned about.

Professor Myers is on record, many times, as distinguishing among decent people who are also Christians and the fanatics, although sometimes in his rants he sounds as if he doesn't.

I am a lot less lenient. If everybody but Dr. Thom knows about Robertson's disgusting behavior and if they don't denounce it and him, then they're going the same place he's going (should there be a hereafter).

I haven't heard any of the so-called decent Christians denouncing and exposing him. Only us atheists do that.

You should choose your causes more carefully.

#48442: — 11/11 at 05:30 PM
Actually the murder was not committed by my ancestors, Herr Pastor. I am an enrolled member of a Treaty Native Nation. I have an earned Doctorate but, perhaps you are not interested in open discussion. If you live in America you are a direct beneficiary of the North American Holocaust so, you may indict and curse "right wing evangelicals" and all those who do not agree with your agenda. But, the point is that your hands are not "clean"either. You are also the direct beneficiary of that which you decry i.e. genocide,injustice, and bigotry. Be honest and do your homework before you are quick to judge, you are not innocent either.Thank you for the mainly respectful and interesting discussion.

#48443: — 11/11 at 05:40 PM
Harry, I probably didn't hear about it because I have been living in Northern Canada for a long time on a Native Reserve we have other issues to concern ourselves with. I watch very little American TV anymore although I am a Army Veteran. I just happened upon this blog and decided to participate because it appeared Academic and interesting. I didn't realize that it was populated by "christian bashers". I am looking for open discussion. I didn't realize that there was so much hatred in America for "christians" or is it just Pat Robertson? I don't think so because I am also seeing hatred directed towards me because it is assumed I am a Robertson supporter.

#48445: — 11/11 at 05:57 PM
If you live in America

I'm British and live in England, but even if I was American I fail to see what the extermination of Native Americans would have to do with the cleanliness of my hands, regardless of what benefits it eventually gave me. I have done nothing to support, endorse, engineer or practise murder. Most people - Americans certainly included - can say the same. Pat Robertson is not one of them.

Pointing out that Pat Robertson is a bad person says nothing about my views about Evangelicals or Christians in general.

And incidentally Dr Thom, if you expect people to be civil your opening shot should probably be something a little less provocative than calling everyone clueless. And yes, people who know about Roberton's crimes - ethical and lawful - will tend to get upset when you support him, regardless of your personal religion.

Take care.

-Schmitt.

#48450: Federico Contreras — 11/11 at 07:14 PM
The idea that the children are guilty for the sins of their fathers is just another loonie christian, mobster-god idea. Adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge (which of course, due to omniscience, is God's fault anyway), but instead of only punishing Adam and eve and starting over with another two, God just decides to be a total asshole, curses the world, throws them out of the garden and curses all their children.

Yup, a real mr. niceguy this christian god.

I hope Satan kills him.

#48451: — 11/11 at 07:23 PM
So, Dr. Thom, now you admit you don't know what you're talking about. That makes it unanimous. We had all already figured that out.

I don't know how I 'benefit' today because my grandfather owned slaves. I don't own any.

By the way, you have gotten some pretty broad hints that it would enhance your credibility if you would, like a decent human, denounce Robertson's numerous transgressions. Time to separate the sheep from the goats. Which are you?

#48452: — 11/11 at 07:39 PM
Harry, I took exception to the broadside that stated that christianity is like an extortion racket. I have difficulty with stereotypical all inclusive statements. It is unfair to single out christianity for attacks but, shy away from attacking "politically correct sacred cows". I really did not seek to defend Pat Robertson , I did not like the comparison of christianity to extortion rackets. I am a world religions Prof. and I don't take that approach to any religion. I appreciate your viewpoint , please appreciate mine.

#48453: — 11/11 at 07:50 PM
Also Harry, you stated that you don't know how you benefit.The land that you live upon was taken from the Indian people by the Colonial Powers or the US Govt.by way of Treaties that were signed under duress , ethnic cleansing and/or genocide.

#48455: — 11/11 at 08:18 PM
Dt Thom:
You claim to be a world religions prof but you appear to be completely ignorant of the loathsome Pat Robertson and you also appear to be unwilling or unable to do a Gooogle search about him. I call shenanagins!
I also have a doctorate (in medicine) but at least I can find out the truth about this cockroach. It would behoove you to do the same.
BTW, Pat Robertson has NOTHING to do with belief in God or the divinity of Jesus Christ.

#48463: Ben — 11/11 at 10:54 PM
Oh, leave Pat alone. He's been feeling a bit down since his prayer-offensive against Justices Stevens and Ginsburg accidentally winged Rehnquist in the thyroid and lodged in a rear wall. He just needs a cuddle.

"The great trouble is that the preachers get the children from six to seven years of age and then it is almost impossible to do anything with them." --Thomas Edison.

#48467: — 11/11 at 11:28 PM
Dr. Bruce, I am not unaware of Pat Robertson. I stated that I did not know about his Mining Activities in Africa. I know his Theology.

#48479: — 11/12 at 10:07 AM
Dr Thom, you claim:

I just happened upon this blog and decided to participate because it appeared Academic and interesting. I didn't realize that it was populated by "christian bashers". I am looking for open discussion.

Your opening post:

Why are you reacting? God doesn't "exist " in your world anyway. I think your clueless.

Hypocrite.

I guess in your world 'open discussions' begin with you calling other people 'clueless,' followed by you acting aggrieved when people respond angrily. OK.

Also, where is it that they give out doctorates to people who cannot spell and punctuate properly? Let me guess, some sort of religious school?

#48480: — 11/12 at 10:12 AM
If I benefit from the genocide of the native Americans (which I guess I do in some respects, much as I benefit from the extinction of the dinosaurs), tell us how you benefit from the genocide in Southeast Asia in which you participated for four years.

#48482: — 11/12 at 10:32 AM

Actually the murder was not committed by my ancestors....I am an enrolled member of a Treaty Native Nation.

So Thom, your 'MacDonald' last name just got attached to you by accident and reflects no actual connection to the European invaders who murdered the native Americans?

I think the history of the Europeanization of North America and the genocide of the native people is sad, but how would you have preferred that the stone age culture of North America have been overtaken by the modern civilizations that now dominate 99% of the world? It was inevitable.

Page 3 of 5 pages « First < 1 2 3 4 5 >

Next entry: California dreamin'

Previous entry: Tail between their legs

<< Back to main

Pharyngula has moved to http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/

Thursday, November 10, 2005

Thugs for God

Info