#31196: — 07/08  at  09:53 AM
Yep, it's ALL the Republicans' fault.

No need to look for any other reasons for the increases in higher education costs, right?

Knee jerk much?

It must be comforting to have such a convenient bogeyman upon which you can pin the blame for darn near anything...and there's no thought required! Just blame it on those mean old Republicans.

#31200: — 07/08  at  10:03 AM
Just checked the prices on
http://www.admissions.wisc.edu/adfin/

Wow! Good thing your a college professor - you guys relly rake in the big bucks ;)

In our little socialdemocratic hellhole (Denmark) we actually get money from the state to study. A normal student would get about $740 a month in support, and can borrow $380 from the state at low interest, to be paid back after graduation.

The $740 depend on your own income, or your parents when you a younger than 19.

Anything you make more than $940 a month whilst studying will be deducted from your grant.

You have to pay your own study materials, but theres no tuition etc.

This policy i an attempt to overcome social inheritance, but sadly it has shown that it is not allways enough in itself. A strong and supporting bacground is still a large factor in who actually gets a degree.

/Soren

#31201: PZ Myers — 07/08  at  10:11 AM
Many factors contribute to the rising costs of education, but yes, Republican policies are a major contributor to the current surge in expenses. Republicans have been behind recent efforts to reduce support for higher education, in addition to their work to undermine secondary ed by sneaking in bad science. We in higher ed have a pretty good idea of who our enemies in government are, you know, and to give you hint, the party name starts with an "R".

OK, you're one of them...you need another hint. It ends with an "n".

Aw, heck, you're still confused? It's got an "epublica" in the middle. No more hints.

#31202: DarkSyde — 07/08  at  10:16 AM
17 Flippin Grand?!? I almost passed out when I read that, I'm surprised you didn't need immediate d-fib and CPR.

PZ, if for any reason any of your children fail to appreciate you and your wife as parents, I'm available and I think I could pass as an adolescent ... with a little make-up and some gym time.

#31203: — 07/08  at  10:25 AM
With the Minimum Wage in Madison set at $7.75 per hour Connlann just needs to get a 40 hour per week job and he'll ALMOST be able to pay for his education himself. Of course with classes and studying he may have to give up sleeping. That's not a big sacrifice, though, since we all know college students never sleep anyway.

#31204: — 07/08  at  10:30 AM
One advantage of being a graduate student in Texas was that the hunting culture encouraged lots of money-saving schemes for feeding oneself. Our lab had several bow-hunters, and a lab freezer that was always stocked with venison and feral pig.

Also, a buddy of mine found that the pigeons he got with his slingshot could be used in the squab-and-wilted-spinach salad from the Chez Panisse cookbook. Yum!

Maybe you could invest in a slingshot for your son.

#31205: — 07/08  at  10:35 AM
Not many pigeons in Madison and the gulls are not very tasty. There is a good selection of deer in the city limits and if you aren't too picky there are a lot of opossum.

#31206: Ken Cope — 07/08  at  10:40 AM
Chalk outline the road kill and return later. Not outlined? Fresh.

#31207: — 07/08  at  10:44 AM
I have a cookbook from 1948 with recipes for muskrat, squirrel, raccoon and other varmints. Let me know if you want/need the recipes.

#31211: Hank Fox — 07/08  at  10:54 AM
Okay, I'm an idiot. I admit it. I even refer to myself as an "amiable doofus" on occasion.

But ...

I'm toying with this wild idea that providing a free or near-free college education to every citizen who wants it, and is willing to put in the work and maintain a good grade average, is a good idea. A good investment in the U.S. society and economy.

(I also kinda wonder what would might happen if we got together with other western nations and provided scholarships to any foreign national with the chops to get in.)

And I wonder ... this $200 billion we've spent in Iraq? Just where did that come from? I mean, considering that the government never seems to have enough money anyway?

And just how many college degrees could that have paid for?

Is is possible that this Free Degree program could counteract the "destruction" of the U.S. economy that Bush recently spoke of, which would supposedly result from reducing greenhouse emissions?

(How about some other "free degree" models: Say the fedgov makes a list of "economically stimulating" science/technology degrees, and anybody who gets a degree in one of those professions, with a GPA of 3.0 or better, gets a ten-year pass on income tax.)

#31221: — 07/08  at  11:31 AM
$200B would be approximately 2.94 million 4 year degrees at UW-Madison's current rate. That is enough students to fill about 60 UW-Madison size schools.

War in Iraq. College education for millions. Hmmmm.

#31223: DarkSyde — 07/08  at  11:34 AM
To say it another way, it would pay for the tuition and books for every single mother on welfare through a four year degree at a public college(Not an expensive priavte college) and her bus pass and a five-day meal plan on campus, and have enough left over to cover the hurricane damage from last year and pay for the Apollo Space Program and a few shuttles to boot.

#31224: Steve — 07/08  at  11:37 AM
…and I had a lovely time in Madison. Well, except for that part where the bursar told me how much my son's education was going to cost, and then I kinda went "eeeep!" and fainted. Isn't it cool how the Republican bait and switch means I save a few hundred dollars thanks to their tax cuts, but when it comes time to use essential services, like higher education, it all gets scraped out of my wallet, along with an additional $17,000? It's only a net gain if I keep my family ignorant…hey! Suddenly the Republican strategy makes sense!

So let me get this straight...you had a kid and didn't save for his college education? And on top of this the rest of us should bear the cost of your childbearing decision by paying for his college degree. Great.

Republicans have been behind recent efforts to reduce support for higher education, in addition to their work to undermine secondary ed by sneaking in bad science.

This impacts costs how exactly? I agree it isn't good, but good gravey, this just seems like throwing mud on the wall and seeing what sticks.

Republicans have been behind recent efforts to reduce support for higher education, in addition to their work to undermine secondary ed by sneaking in bad science.

Recent, and this is why college costs have been going up for quite sometime? Could it be that demand might also be outpacing supply (i.e. student loans, grants and other government programs reducing out of pocket expenses are inducing more students to go to college)?

Face it, you screwed up and now you are blaming others. If you had saved $125 bi-weekly at 3% annual interest you'd have likely been pretty close to the cost of college.

#31225: — 07/08  at  11:39 AM
But that $200B must be spent on something important. College educations? No, something important. What's the current cost on ten commandments displays at every school?

#31228: — 07/08  at  12:15 PM
Just wait 'til next year. The UW board of Regents voted last night to raise tuition, again.

#31230: PZ Myers — 07/08  at  12:22 PM
Steve, Steve, Steve. You've got to watch what you assume. Of course we've been saving to pay for this -- do you seriously think I could write off a third to half my yearly salary to pay for this? I'm lower middle class, guy. I don't have that much fat in my income.

And no, I don't want you to pay for my kid's degree. We'll make sacrifices, and we'll get by, because it is important. What I want is for all of us to pay for everyone's education, because that is what civilized societies do—make mutual investments in improving the quality of the next generation. I want that single mother who works at Walmart to be able to send her kids to any college they qualify to attend...because that's good for me, it's good for you, it's good for our country to have a well-educated citizenry.

You do want what's best for your country, don't you?

We have had steady increases in the cost of education, much of which you can pin on inflation. But you can also blame the recent surge of double-digit percentage increases in Republican assholes who want to cut the government completely free of supporting education.

#31231: — 07/08  at  12:26 PM
The funniest thing is this idea that government shouldn't foot the bill for education, but the parents should have already saved. A reasonable idea, but one I don't understand.

You graduate these kids, with an excellent education and a lot more opportunities to enter the workforce than some guy who dropped out of high school. Isn't it to be expected that they'll net a decent check? Why not just offer loans to every single kid who wants to go to college, or why not just pay for their college free of charge, and then raise the income tax?

Here, we can make it extremely complicated, because people like that more, we'll introduced CMOs! They'll decide, based on your location and gpa what universities you can go to. Also, they'll offer you a list of what professors you can attend class with, we'll make sure those have proper political balance, because being a Democrat or Republican definitely has a bearing on your ability to teach Intro to Oceanography!

I feel like I should be a Senator.

#31237: — 07/08  at  01:21 PM
Interesting ideas, Quain. I suppose what you meant by raising the income tax is raising the income tax on those who benefitted from free college. Otherwise you're taxing the Wal-Mart janitor for the college degree of the privileged graduate, and that doesn't sound so equitable.

(Have I got the lefty social-justice jargon almost right? I'm a libertarian, so sorry, chums.)

#31239: PZ Myers — 07/08  at  01:31 PM
I would argue that taxing the janitor is reasonable: do you seriously believe that there are people, other than Republicans and slave-lords, who do not benefit from living in a well-educated society? It's like arguing that we can't tax people who don't own a car for road maintenance -- they are benefitting from the products transported on the roads, even if they don't personally drive on them.

#31242: — 07/08  at  01:51 PM
You may think I am a monster but my daughters know that they will receive exactly what I received from my parents: nothing. It is a principle. If they dont get grades good enough to receive scholarships, and if they dont work, they aren't striving enough and no money can help that. So they are all working and saving. I grew up in a country where education was free and like Soren from Denmark, my experience is that few take advantage of the opportunity, not even if they are paid for studying as in Europe. BTW, average tuition paid at public universities is $1,115, and total costs for tuition and room and board are $6,794. Three-fourths of the nation's college students attend public institutions.Factoring in tax breaks, scholarships and the possibility of working, education is accessible in the USA.

#31243: — 07/08  at  02:04 PM
Well speedwell, the solution is called progressive taxes. It means the more money you make, the higher tax rate you pay.

Then, here's the really good part: Even the WalMart janitor could benefit, ie he takes a few classes to get a better job, or in any case he could send his kids to college which would be totally impossible otherwise given WalMart's wages.

#31249: coturnix — 07/08  at  02:28 PM
My college was free, but the entrance exams were HELL!

#31250: — 07/08  at  02:32 PM
When I was nineteen I went to the hospital because I thought I was having a heart attack. Trouble breathing, pain in my chest and down my right side.

Nope. It was just a panic attack caused by going to school full time and working fifty-odd hours a week to pay to put myself through. Sure, paying for your own education is easy! All you have to do is live on tuna fish and lemon and work yourself into a nervous breakdown.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather it happened another way. I don't have any illusions about that kind of stress being a good 'life lesson' for people.

#31256: — 07/08  at  03:14 PM
Philosophy! What if he discovers religion?

(Sorry, my creationist mode was switched on.)

#31258: — 07/08  at  03:17 PM
Hmm. Does creationist mode eliminate the Gravatar icons?