#22873: Bill Ware — 04/24  at  11:18 AM
I think I'll write in favor of their enthusiastic support of creationism as someone from Rhea County TN, home of the famous Scope's Monkey Trial, in hope that this 75 year onus will at last be lifted from our shoulders and given to their fair community instead. Think that might help? BW

#22882: GrrlScientist — 04/24  at  11:46 AM
I sent my letter about an hour ago, now. It was exactly 150 words long.

GrrlScientist

#22908: — 04/24  at  04:13 PM
Here is my letter, a little light at 147 words.

Also, the Cafe Scientifique was great

To the Editor



Dave Eaton writes “certain aspects of living things and the universe are best explained by an intelligent cause”. Intelligent cause--this means somebody or something does some bits and pieces of creation by magic ignoring the usual chemistry and physics. He also writes “ID depends on science”. This combination is spin and pushes the Spin-o-Meter to the red line as magic and science are incompatible by definition.

Science requires that the theories of gravity, electromagnetism, photosynthesis, or anything else must be falsifiable, meaning there must be a way to test the hypothesis using natural, repeatable methods and show if it is wrong or, at best, acceptable for now.

Magic isn't testable or verifiable and, therefore, not part of science. ID with its magic has no place in Science Classes for the same reasons Drivers Education isn't part of Algebra and students don't cook pancakes in European History.

#22909: — 04/24  at  04:33 PM
I'm trying to get mine pared down to 150 words. I'll get it done eventually.

#22910: — 04/24  at  04:34 PM
Dear Star Trib,

I think we need to stop teaching evolution, because, well, as it has become totally clear, science is utter rot.

Galileo, you fool, of course the Sun revolves around the Earth. The Church jumped too soon onto that silly bandwagon.

Plate tectonics! Lies, all lies!!! The Earth was created just as it is! Volcanoes, earthquakes, all the Devil's doings.

Dinosaur bones, placed by the Devil, silly, who is alive and well and directly under our feet (China, hah! You fools, the Earth is not round!!! Flat!!!)

Stars and Galaxies? All lies! And we never did go to the moon it was all created in a soundstage in Anaheim. Don't believe me, take History 101.

Man evolved from Apes! Yikes, what silliness. The Apes have totally disinherited us and have sworn never to talk to us again.

#22918: — 04/24  at  05:52 PM
BTW, can you clarify a couple of things? The strib's website says 250 words, not 150, but it also says

We require that all submissions be exclusive in Minnesota.

What does that mean? All submission have to originate in MN, or not be sent anywhere else, or what?

#22920: coturnix — 04/24  at  06:01 PM
I am assuming that their regular limit is 250 words, but for this exclusive topic they want the letters to be shorter so they can include more letters. I would like to know if the origination in Minnesota is real, before I try to write mine. I have posted links to this and the previous two posts here, as well as a copy of their invitation on my blog (Sorry, can't do trackbacks).

#22922: — 04/24  at  06:03 PM
Stan G., the "exclusive in Minnesota" requirement is that you don't sent your letter to anyone else but the Star Tribune in the state of Minnesota. Don't worry, it's not like the St. Paul Pioneer Press would print intelligent letters anyway.

#22924: PZ Myers — 04/24  at  06:07 PM
I took the instructions above straight off the print edition (I bought a copy to send to my mom.) Like Coturnix says, they probably want to squeeze in more letters, and like David says, send it even if you're from out of state. They may prioritize MN letters, but you never know...if there's a bunch of furriners expressing dismay, they might want to make a note of that.

Trackback: "Teach the Controversy" Nonsense Debated in Strib Tracked on: Lloydletta's Nooz (72.9.234.70) at 2005 04 24 12:12:17
Evolution vs Creationism is being debated in the Strib. Dave Eaton does the honors for Intelligent Design Creationism. PZ Myers does the honors for evolution.

#22930: — 04/24  at  07:12 PM
Well, considering that Tom DeLay is my representative, John Cornyn is my senator, and the state legislature wants to let the BOE decide what is truth in textbooks, they might just laugh at my dismay. God, it's getting embarrassing to be a Texan. I might be forced to move to Kansas. But not Minnesota. It gets just too cold up there to consider that.

#22933: — 04/24  at  08:06 PM
Hey PZ, I'd like to commend you for the excellent work you're doing keeping those Creationists at bay; where I live (Singapore), there's a lot boiling over from what's going in the USA.

Anyway, this may be a little irrelevant to you, but recently, I rebutted some comments left by a creationist on my blog, and yet another creationist has joined in, linking to his own blog over at http://mynym.blogspot.com/ (how do you add links in the comments, by the way?)

I did a cursory glance, and dug up the following posts (he even mentions you!):

http://mynym.blogspot.com/2005/04/creationists.html
The Creationists

http://mynym.blogspot.com/2005/04/evolutionism-proto-nazism.html
Evolutionism, Proto-Nazism

http://mynym.blogspot.com/2005/04/much-maligned-creationists.html
The much maligned creationists...

Perhaps you could provide some rebuttal? For a battle-seasoned warrior like you, this should be quite simple.

#22936: Eva Young — 04/24  at  09:47 PM
Same guy came and left a trackback from my blog.

#22943: — 04/25  at  12:16 AM
Somehow I don't think a letter from decadent Denmark is going to help much, yet I am tempted to write one.

#22947: Alon Levy — 04/25  at  02:22 AM
What did you say that prompted Mynym to respond, Hai-Ren?

#22948: — 04/25  at  02:42 AM
Alon Levy: Nothing much, really, just some rebuttals to Creationist claims. But if you want to read the blog posts I wrote and the comments, here they are:

The post that sparked it off (I was involved in a discussion with someone named Jingwei regarding evolution on another blog, hence note that the content of the blog post itself isn't relevant to evolution, just that Jingwei comes over to thank me for expressing my views, and then someone named Henry butts in with some questions of his own)

http://chasmosaurine.blogspot.com/2005/04/maybe-they-should-rope-in-chow-yun.html
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/chasmosaurine/111382930585754276/

Then I post a rebuttal to the claims made by Henry, and sparks off a great deal of comments from theists and atheists alike:

http://chasmosaurine.blogspot.com/2005/04/i-lay-smackdown-on-ignorant.html
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/chasmosaurine/111406232160496942/

Mynym didn't respond to anything that I wrote, he just left a link that soomehow connected evolution and naturalism to Nazism.

I originally thought he was merely ignorant, but it seems that he is someone who has a great deal of experience wrangling with evolutionists and worming his way around

#22952: Alon Levy — 04/25  at  03:57 AM
Still, Mynym hasn't produced a shred of evidence that evolution is false on this blog, so I don't worry about it. There are lunatics everywhere, and on the Internet they are especially ubiquitous.

By the way, just out of curiosity what's your major, Hai-Ren? Your blog talks a lot about biology but at the same time implies you're at the Faculty of Arts and Social sciences (I'm an NUS student, too...).

#22954: mynym — 04/25  at  04:46 AM
"Mynym hasn't produced a shred of evidence that evolution is false on this blog..."

The term evolution is a pollution of language.

I do not feel obligated to "prove something false" that doesn't even rise to the level of being wrong.

The term has been used by Naturalists to describe anything from, "Hey, these things reproduce and stuff." to "The whole universe came from nothing, or somethin'...and then some rocks dissolved in a pool and became life." It has even been used as some sort of synonym for Naturalism itself.

You can have your pollution of language. It seems apposite that people who seem to have quite an urge to merge would rely on such mergings to delude themselves.

#22956: mynym — 04/25  at  04:50 AM
"There are lunatics everywhere..."

That sort of thing will only convince people who have bound up their ideas with evolution with their cultural memes and psychological dynamics like the urge to merge.

I'm not trying to convince them. I'm after the people who can read text as text. And your sort of argument will not convince them in the least.

I think you should have added something about the communalizing scientific community to it. That would have appealed to people with the urge to merge better. Like this, "Those lunatics are outside of our communalizing community here, see. So if you want to be a nerd of the herd, you'd better stick with me!"

#22957: Alon Levy — 04/25  at  04:55 AM
My response to your two comments can be summed up in one word: huh? You simply don't make sense. What is something that doesn't rise to the level of being wrong, for example?

#22958: — 04/25  at  04:59 AM
Alon Levy: I'm a 2nd-year Geography and English Language shared major, although right now my interest lies more with Geography. I'd have wanted to do Life Sciences, if not for the fact that I failed Maths, and that Life Sciences in NUS seems to revolve around microbiology and the other fields with the greatest potential for development in the biotechnology sector, when my fascination lies more in ecology and biodiversity.

#22960: Alon Levy — 04/25  at  05:26 AM
If I remember correctly, the Life Sciences program allows you to choose between three different concentrations: cell/molecular biology, biochemistry, and organismal biology/ecology/evolutionary biology.

#22965: Virge — 04/25  at  06:24 AM
I'd suggest mynym presents a fine example of Godwin's Law. By starting with the Nazi accusation (used as an insult to his opposition) any discussion has gone on too long before it even starts. He then continues without presenting a scrap of evidence to support his assertions.

That has to be the ultimate in trolldom. Game, set, match. Troll wins.

#22967: — 04/25  at  06:38 AM
Alon Levy: Ah damn. Oh well, they didn't accept me anyway, what with my dismal grades in Maths. =P

Back to mugging... (P.S. To all non-Singaporeans, here we use "mugging" not as it is commonly used, but more as a term to describe cramming for the exams)

#22970: Phoenix Woman — 04/25  at  07:56 AM
Hai-Ren, I suggest that you visit this site for all your creationist-debunking needs:

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/whatsnew.html