Pharyngula

Wednesday, July 27, 2005

Gilder: still wailing over his spanking

Oh, come on, Boston Globe. They tip-toed around, avoiding naming me or the weblog, but I think everyone here can figure out what they're talking about.

Yet even Gilder, seemingly a lightning rod for the socioeconomic controversy of the moment, was blistered by the comments posted on a University of Minnesota biologist's weblog last fall, language so heated Gilder's daughter felt obliged to rush to his defense.

Awww. Poor baby. They could have at least mentioned the site url! Here's the article that made George Gilder cry: The Sanctimonious Bombast of George Gilder. It's too bad they didn't give that link in the fluff job they wrote for Gilder, because he repeats the same nonsense again, and adds a new set of lies to the mix.

"I'm sorry my daughter got dragged into this," he continues, picking up a conversation that begins in his rustic Berkshires home, overlooking the bucolic dairy farm where he grew up, and resumes over lunch at a nearby Stockbridge restaurant. "But I really think those guys" -- meaning the scientists who attacked him on the weblog -- "are pretty crazy."

Gilder pokes at his spinach salad and smiles wanly. "They must feel very vulnerable," he muses. Then he warns that if biologists don't take information theory seriously enough -- information theory and not Christianity being the basis for Gilder's embrace of intelligent design -- then they'll be the ones branded fools in the long run. Not him.

His daughter was not "dragged" into anything—she showed up in the comments of her own free will.

For an article that allows Gilder to whine about his unfair persecution, it is ironic for him to call us "crazy".

And the key thing is that, as in my original complaint, Gilder doesn't know anything about information theory. Scientists do take information theory seriously, and we can see that Gilder doesn't understand it. Or biology. Or science in general. What he is is a fast-talking con-artist who thinks he knows something. The reporter seems to accept his glib babble uncritically.

In conversation, Gilder is something of a rhetorical hummingbird, darting from topic to topic so rapidly it's difficult to get a word (much less a question) in edgewise. Each topic arrives with its own set of footnotes, reference texts, and unvarnished -- some might say unhinged -- opinions. Predictable Gilder is not, however. On balance, it's much easier to peg him as a hip-shooting contrarian than a cookie-cutter conservative or raving holy roller.

At maximum conversational velocity, he waves his arms as though battling through nylon netting to get to the next point. And battle he does, with the energy of a 65-year-old man who runs 5 miles daily and could outtalk either Al, Franken or Sharpton, at the drop of a hat. Have you read this?, he asks frequently during a two-hour interview. Looked into that? Sixty-codon alphabets, amino-acid source codes, low-entropy carriers: Hey, check them out. Although a PhD in electrical engineering might be helpful, too.

Talking real fast and throwing out poorly understood buzzwords does not compensate for his lack of understanding. He did this same thing in his Wired article, and in his comments here. Here's a delightful example of Gilderian pomposity:

I come to this issue not as a biologist (I have never taken a biology course) but as a writer (12 books) who has spent much time studying communications and networking theory as an analyst of technology. My role with Discovery (parttime) is as a technology analyst. My new book, The Silicon Eye (Norton, 2005), addresses the interface between biology and electronics. I came to see that the nature of the evolutionary problem had changed radically with the discovery of DNA, which introduced information and codes as central elements of biology.

I came to see the genetic alphabet, what I termed the adguacyth, as informational possibilities actualized in the twenty amino acids that combine in multiple sequences as proteins. In other words, the genetic alphabet defines the "W" or bandwidth of possibilities of the genetic message. Proteins embody it, resolving uncertainty in particular entropic forms.

Hmmm. Doesn't know any biology, but thinks he has recognized the importance of DNA to evolution, 52 years after the fact. Invents phony terms (adguacyth? Spare me). Thinks he can bamboozle people if he can babble about "actualizing" and "entropic forms" and "bandwidth"…but honestly, he can only fool people who actually know nothing about the subject. To anyone else, he comes off as a jibber-jabbering clown.

The rest is stuff I've dealt with before. He just keeps claiming that Shannon's information theory refutes evolution, when it does no such thing. That claim alone is sufficient to mark him as a poseur who is misusing the theory.

He's also fond of straw men.

"There's no biblical literalism -- none -- to the ID movement," he says flatly. "So presenting us as troglodytes who believe in Noah's Ark is quite bizarre. If people want to attack me that way, fine. It's quite exhilarating, actually, to be shot at and totally missed."

It's quite clear that there are religious motives to the ID movement, but simple Biblical literalism isn't what they are accused of (and for a movement that claims "literalism", there sure is a lot of interpretation that goes on, anyway). What they are accused of is attacking science to provide support for their notions of a supernatural designer…which Gilder shows is an entirely valid claim.

Ergo, some form of higher intelligence -- call it God, a Supreme Programmer, or whatever -- must have played a role, they say.

Though a conservative Christian by upbringing and temperament, Gilder insists his belief in ID is not a faith-based proposition.

"Much of what I've written about has been in reaction to the materialist superstition," he says, "the belief that the universe is a purely material phenomenon that can be reduced to physical and chemical laws. It's a concept that's infected the social sciences as well."

And, he adds, "it's preposterous."

Ah, and he confuses methodological with metaphysical materialism, too. Same ol', same ol' Discovery Institute crap.

By the way, there is one good thing about the Globe article: it presents a succinct list of Gilder's past failures.


(Oh, and thanks to David, Hylton, Erik, and Kate for bringing the article to my attention!)


Trackback url: http://pharyngula.org/index/trackback/2639/QSplcAmw/

Comments:
#32950: — 07/27  at  11:43 AM
university of Minnesota biologist's weblog


Gahhh, why didn't they mention your name??? You would of instantly tripled the amounts of hits on this site. People would think, "Pharyngula? That sounds intresting, I'll check it out!"

-----
"As with all of ID, the important thing is first to have the concept. Production can then follow as a matter of course.” -Dembski



#32954: Les Lane — 07/27  at  11:57 AM
So presenting us as troglodytes who believe in Noah's Ark is quite bizarre.


He's a different kind of troglogyte, isn't he.



#32955: coturnix — 07/27  at  12:19 PM
Is Gilderian pomposity faster than Gish Gallop?

What a crackpot. I hope the editor gets a lot of letters...



#32957: Mike the Mad Biologist — 07/27  at  12:24 PM
PZ,

I remember reading Gilder's Wired article and thinking how vitalistic the whole 'information' concept is (not that information theory isn't useful). What Gilder doesn't get is that DNA without the cellular machinery is just a bizzaro sugar. Information doesn't exist outside of the material form (at least so far as anyone has been able to demonstrate).

Ultimately, the Matrix freaks often forget that all that 'information' exists in a real computer.



#32958: — 07/27  at  12:27 PM
What an absolute crappy article.



#32964: — 07/27  at  01:04 PM
Why is anyone, particularly a paper as usually respectable as the Boston Globe paying attention to this crackpot? It sounds like he hasn't even succeeded in his own field--people who followed his investment advice lost money--muchless a field he clearly knows little about. The author of the article is probably a believer in ID/Creationism himself: he talks about "Darwinism" a little too much.



#32966: — 07/27  at  01:16 PM
Why is anyone, particularly a paper as usually respectable as the Boston Globe paying attention to this crackpot?


Because he is a well-connected crackpot.



#32968: — 07/27  at  01:17 PM
"Though a conservative Christian by upbringing and temperament"

What a remarkable coincidence!

Question: if ID isn't driven by belief in a religious text, why is every single IDist a conservative Christian, Jew or Muslim? What is the probability of that being the case accidentally, and how does that compare with the chance of a flagellum evolving?



#32970: — 07/27  at  01:24 PM
If George Gilder had a sense of ethics, he could have earned an honest living as a technobabble screenwriter for the various and sundry Star Trek television series.



#32972: Les Lane — 07/27  at  01:27 PM
Because he is a well-connected crackpot


Well connected yes, but scientific connections? Were his peer group scientifically literate his encounter with PZ would hardly loom so large.

PZ- how about a blog on Harvard educated troglodytes?



#32973: — 07/27  at  01:27 PM
Gilder: the "W" or bandwidth


One thing for sure: When I think of "W", I do not think of bandwidth (unless this is intended to connote a very, very narrow measure).



#32974: jay denari — 07/27  at  02:24 PM
Apparently the "reporter" has never heard of the old journalism adage "Single-source stories suck." That's especially true when you're writing about an issue that has so many ramifications as this controversy does. Sloppiness like that gives the rest of my profession a bad name.

I'd bet he didn't use Pharyngula's name b/c he doesn't KNOW it; Gilder probably complained about the site but purposely didn't identify it. (If I'd written it, I'd definitely have at least called one of the countless biologists in the Boston area for comment, even if I didn't know what site it was. Our area has dozens of colleges and he couldn't find ONE?!?)

Oh, and I thoguht Gilder's assertion that info theory disproves evolution, was interesting. I'll admit I know little about info theory, but it makes sense to mean that "added info" would mean "new species" in biology and the article you link to said, Tetraploidy in orchids as an increase in "layman's information". If the offspring cannot sexually reproduce with their parents b/c of genetic changes... doesn't that technically make them a new species? Sounds like evolution to me.



#32976: Arun — 07/27  at  04:17 PM
FYI, from the comments in the previous Gilder stuff - India did not ban DDT, so no malarial deaths in India need be blamed on the US ban on DDT.



#32978: — 07/27  at  04:31 PM
Hey PZ: like you said.
The neologisms alone are a dead giveaway.
What he says starts out sounding reasonable; then you simply can't follow him. You might catching yourself thinking, well, he's such a polymath that even though, when he talks about something you know something about you know it's nonsense,you give him, for a moment or two, the benefit of the doubt. And then you realize that it isn't you that's lost, it's he. It's really quite sad for him, and reveals a society so poorly schooled in science that even some well-educated people don't have his number. (also posted on Atrios)



#32979: — 07/27  at  04:37 PM
TonyB, I believe the "W" he's referring to is the bandwidth variable in the info theory channel capacity formula (the amount of information that can be sent across a channel).

See, by being able to refer to variables in equations, especially ones most people don't know, you prove to the world that you know what you're talking about.

(It's been a while since I took the class so I checked my copy of 'Elements of Information Theory' by Cover and Thomas to make sure I had the right equation smile



#32984: — 07/27  at  05:01 PM
You forgot the Flux Capacitor!



#32990: — 07/27  at  05:58 PM
jay denari: I'd bet he didn't use Pharyngula's name b/c he doesn't KNOW it; Gilder probably complained about the site but purposely didn't identify it.

Well, if he didn't know it, it must be because he didn't want to know it. The Pharyngula blog entry is the first hit on google for "sanctimonious bombast".



#32991: skippy — 07/27  at  05:58 PM
personally, i think that just watching msnbc is proof enough there is no intelligent design.

i'm only commenting to note that the secret word the comment bot asked me to type in to prove i was a human was "atheist."

is that proof of intelligent design?



#32992: cervantes — 07/27  at  06:03 PM
It's quite amusing to learn that materialism has "infected" social science. I'm happy to say that the vast majority of us have always believed in reality. When we talk about the "social construction of reality" we mean that people's interpretations of their experience are influenced by their relationships with other people. An excellent example is religious belief. The notion that the world must be designed is a social construction. For Gilder, and others, it's a starting point, not a conclusion.

I'm proud to say that as a social scientist, I believe I am well equipped to explain how Gilder comes to hold his beliefs, and why he ends up spouting them without critical context in a couple of square feet of the Boston Globe. And I'm equally proud to be a materialist.



#32995: — 07/27  at  06:25 PM
Malaria and DDT
Spraying DDT in houses and on mosquito breeding grounds was the primary reason that rates of malaria around the world declined dramatically after the Second World War. Nearly one million Indians died from malaria in 1945, but DDT spraying reduced this to a few thousand by 1960. However, concerns about the environmental harm of DDT led to a decline in spraying and, likewise, a resurgence of malaria.

As I understand it, India did almost eradicate malaria in the 1960's through an aggressive program of DDT spraying. The resurgence was caused by a decline in the use of DDT as well as a behavioural adaptation in mosquitos. By default, mosquitos will settle on a wall after feeding, thus spraying the walls of houses with DDT caused freshly infected mosquitos to be killed with a high probability. Unfortunately DDT sprayed walls very quickly and effectively selected against mosquitos that displayed this behaviour.

Oh, and it appears that the only google hits for adguacyth are to pharyngula. If it's not a misspelling (assuming you can misspell a nonsense word) then I have to say: well done!



's avatar #32996: PZ Myers — 07/27  at  06:29 PM
The reporter definitely knew this site, though; he quoted directly from the comments thread.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris



#33000: Mrs Tilton — 07/27  at  07:11 PM
Yeah yeah, say whatever you like, Myers, but this Gilder is no fool. Take all the money you have and plough into tech stocks now. Take it from Gilder -- it's gonna be huge, huge I tells ya...

Anyway, you should show the appropriate deference. Gilder has not, as he freely concedes, ever learnt any biology; but he has Written Twelve Books.



#33003: — 07/27  at  07:30 PM
Gilder: the "W" or bandwidth


I'm sure he has no greater understanding of 'bandwidth' than he has of any of the other topics he spews about.

I found a great quote whin I was studying computer networking, but unfortunately I don't have the authors name at hand.

"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a stationwagon packed with magnetic tape hurtling down the freeway."



#33007: Lei — 07/27  at  08:04 PM
the genetic alphabet, what I termed the adguacyth?!?!!

GAG. Maybe we should rename HIM. It wouldn't make any of his theories any easier to tolerate or accept, though.



#33008: Jedmunds — 07/27  at  08:10 PM
Man, I just went through all of the comments in that other thread. That guy reminds me of Dennis Hopper in Apocalypse Now. Though it was interesting reading in that one article that guy linked to that he did have the decency to lose a lot of his own money on his stock picks.



#33009: — 07/27  at  08:13 PM
"''I'm sorry my daughter got dragged into this," he continues, picking up a conversation that begins in his rustic Berkshires home, overlooking the bucolic dairy farm where he grew up, and resumes over lunch at a nearby Stockbridge restaurant . . . Gilder pokes at his spinach salad and smiles wanly. ''They must feel very vulnerable," he muses"

Hahahaha. A poor little guy who spends a whole day crying about getting criticized on a blog a year ago to a reporter of a huge newspaper, yet who nevertheless says that it is his critics who are vulnerable is a hilarious scenario, fer shur.

It's like those fat loud women on daytime talk-shows who call the world "jealous" as it jeers at them in disgust.



#33015: — 07/27  at  09:31 PM
Listen, the daughter who came in was very well spoken, and the only thing I've seen anyone pick on her for is whining. She got a bit whiney. That's it. Well spoken otherwise.

I see this all getting so heated (by -ologist standards) because one side wants to know how things work and where it all came from.

The other side wants the Hubble telescope to fall from the sky, because it adds another nail to Gods own coffin whiole calling for more "research" which is subsequently ignored.

Most of the angrier types here wish they could have been at the Scopes Trial. They'd have shown 'em. Whatever, get heated, it just shows that they're enthusiatic and care. And the other side JUST KEEPS SHOWING a remarkaably thin skin.

Intelligent design fails Occams Razor. That's quite enough for me. Everything else is random, why stop at design?

If you honestly believe that an idea (a form, a whatever) CAN precede it's instantantiation, then tell me WHERE it does so. If it is real, this place (or method) of pre-intantantiation ideas it can be measured or inferred, but not invented from whole cloth.

Also, You forgot Uracil!!!!! (You forgot Poland!!

Not to mention the UNUSED base pairs, the ones with the poor fit and entropy-ridden bond energies that A-G and T-C didn't have. Imagine the possible information in THAT large a code base.... keep imagining... wander with it.... then, close the door behind you, and don't let it hit you.



#33017: — 07/27  at  09:37 PM
Jason, your closing sentence NAILS it.



#33018: — 07/27  at  09:49 PM
65 years old... yeah, I'd say that puts him right in the range of the people who might've done just a few too many doses of LSD - and frankly, it sure sounds as though he's still smokin' weed.

Or maybe you're right, and he's really an expert at one specific thing only: dazzling the naifs with bullshit because he has no brilliance to baffle 'em with...



#33023: — 07/27  at  11:22 PM
Brad DeLong: Why Oh Why Can't We Have a Better Press Corps? (George Gilder Back in the News Department)
One of the scam artists of the late 1990s has reemerged as an intelligent design advocate--and he's using the Boston Globe to call biologist P.Z. Myers "crazy"



#33024: — 07/27  at  11:35 PM
I don't know were to start on this guy Gilder. I see that eralier posts has exposed most of his fallacies on biology, chemistry, epidemiology, physics and information theory (where I learned things myself). But there remains some stuff on DDT and electronics.

DDT:
The DDT/malaria connection seems to be a US urban myth. Last time I saw this it was in US itself. But as we can see on http://www.worldofmolecules.com/pesticides/ddt.htm and some official US sites, the ban was enforced after DDT stopped being used.

"DDT has never been shown to inflict harm on humans or birds. The expert on the subject was Gordon Edwards, who compiled the ornithological record over decades. He used to drink a glass of DDT before each of his many speeches presenting all the available data to a world so intoxicated by the ideas of Rachel Carson that it would rather permit the malarial deaths of some 500 million children over the decades than admit the error of its chemophobic fears."

DDT has been banned in some malaria countries. We can see from the reference site that the deaths may be 60 millions, not 10 times more. But as Toby points out is even that number is highly uncertain due to mosquito adaptions by evolution.

Electronics:
Gilder says that, contrary to proof, he understand the basics of Quantum Mechanics (QM). He when goes on to say that he knows that it is important since it is a basis for eventually usable quantum computing. The poor sap doesn't know that modern electronics are based on QM!

Solid state physics use QM to explain bandgap and doping in semiconductors. It is essential to know and use for designing microelectronics; the computer models are based on that for doping and geometry design. You also need it to understand the material itself. For example, if the semiconductor have a direct bandgap it can emit light and be used in photonics. While silicon has an indirect bandgap and is used for plain vanilla electronics.

Besides being a babbling crackpot he is an ignoramus.



's avatar #33025: — 07/27  at  11:48 PM
Gilder is something of a rhetorical hummingbird, darting from topic to topic so rapidly it's difficult to get a word (much less a question) in edgewise.
The journalist pictured him as he is: a fast-talking con-artist. He also brought up his catastrophic carreer as investment adviser. Is Gilder going to complain against him too?

Quod natura non sunt turpia



#33026: — 07/28  at  12:26 AM
Yes, I forgot that. An ignorant crackpot babbling conartist then.



#33028: — 07/28  at  01:27 AM
"65 years old... yeah, I'd say that puts him right in the range of the people who might've done just a few too many doses of LSD"

Hey, I've done too many doses of LSD, and I think intelligent design is abject stupidity masquerading as science. Don't blame the drugs, dude.

"Intelligent Design is Neither"



#33031: rdb — 07/28  at  02:48 AM
Tim Lambert's DDT category if useful.



#33036: — 07/28  at  05:05 AM
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a stationwagon packed with magnetic tape hurtling down the freeway."
I remember that one too! But, being me, I'm as lost as you are on the name. I think it was part of a larger anecdote though.



#33037: — 07/28  at  05:09 AM
PS I had a brainwave on the wording not being quite right and google has: "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a VW Bug loaded with magnetic tape". Still not much help with attribution though.



#33039: — 07/28  at  05:15 AM
There are many version of the quote, but it's often attributed to Andrew Tannenbaum or to Denis Ritchie. I doubt either would have added the 'hurtling down the freeway' bit, because both would be well aware that speed doesn't change bandwidth; only latency.



#33041: — 07/28  at  06:32 AM
The qoute is indeed from Tannenbaum, from his book "computer networks".

The book is somewhere in my attick, and I won't bother go looking for it.

/Soren



#33044: — 07/28  at  07:11 AM
It is interesting that the article mentioned he lost his (and a bunch of investors) shirt, and that his speaking fees are now at an all time low....Sound like a great time to find that ol' time religeon and start the ID speaking for hire game. At least ID'rs don't expect any returns on that investment.



#33051: — 07/28  at  08:30 AM
Reviewing Gilder's past statements, and the older post on him, I feel the need to speak a bit to those who object to the "tone" of the criticism voiced here.

You may be right--some of us may be overboard in saying "mean things." It's better if we don't do that. But don't confuse meanness with accurate statements that have mean social connotations.

When I say Gilder is dishonest, I am not saying "Gilder's a rotten filthy stinking liar!" I'm saying "Gilder has fooled himself and is trying to fool others." I'm saying he's being dishonest to himself. He may have some vague notion of it...he may "know better," somewhere deep down inside. I certainly would start to question my convictions if I found myself resorting to verbal and intellectual ink clouds, as he does, to defend my position. I would wonder if my strong social opinions about materialism and environmentalism have biased me. But I see a difference between being a scammer (or madman) and a wise fool.

Gilder IS also pompous, arrogant. I'm sorry, but what other explanation can you have for the "I don't know biology but I've written twelve books" claim to authority?

I'm sorry these things are unpleasant. But yes, these statements about Gilder are also true. If the truth hurts, don't attack the truth-tellers, deal with the truth. If some of us take too much pleasure in telling the painful truths, don't use that to hide from the truths themselves.



#33056: — 07/28  at  09:18 AM
George Gilder is a laughingstock of the investment world. He has lost his fortune getting burned in the telecom stock bubble. He may have gotten some of it back via his endless ability to create neologisms. Last I read, he had a lien on his house.



's avatar #33058: PZ Myers — 07/28  at  09:26 AM
Gilder is also one of the founders of the Discovery Institute. It must be difficult to be the source of so much failure and corruption -- history, if it remembers him at all, is not going to be kind.

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris



#33070: John Emerson — 07/28  at  11:08 AM
If I remember correctly, Gilder has also associated himself with Julian Simon, Bjørn Lomborg, and the cornucopians. It was Simon who explained that since there are an infinite number of points in a line, that we can never run out of resources.



#33074: — 07/28  at  11:31 AM
If you honestly believe that an idea (a form, a whatever) CAN precede it's instantantiation, then tell me WHERE it does so. If it is real, this place (or method) of pre-intantantiation ideas it can be measured or inferred, but not invented from whole cloth.

Just about any invention (aside from vulcanized rubber & suchlike fortuitous accidents) started as an idea before taking any physical form. Ditto for works of art, or even creativity as trivial as this posting.

Arguably the same could be said for various non-material concepts: e.g., justice, democracy, etc.

Many concepts remain so far ahead of their material manifestation - yes, gods, I'm looking at you - that it's difficult to find any instances at all...



#33079: — 07/28  at  12:19 PM
Maybe this is going into areas I know too little about...but I'm not sure I agree with you, Pierce. I think I would describe invention more as a "what if" type process. The inventor asks "what if I could fly?" and proceeds to explore ways to make it happen. Which typically leads to a massive amount of research, trial-and-error experimentation, and so on. At its best, I would think to describe it as a scientific process. The idea is not so much "I wonder if can build an aircraft with these precise specifications." Or, if it is, it then becomes a matter of learning why that preconceived idea (often based on a great deal of prior knowledge) failed and researching ways to modify it to a working form.

Am I wrong?



#33080: Seth Gordon — 07/28  at  12:59 PM
Reading the original flame against Gilder, I was struck by this quote from him: "In a self-refuting materialist superstition, teachers deny the role of ideas and purposes in evolution and hence implicitly in their own thought." Nothing spices up a pastiche of biology and information theory like a pastiche of Ayn Rand....



#33091: — 07/28  at  02:40 PM
If I remember correctly, Gilder has also associated himself with Julian Simon, Bjørn Lomborg, and the cornucopians. It was Simon who explained that since there are an infinite number of points in a line, that we can never run out of resources.


Yes, and Achilles never could catch up to that tortoise!

Anyhow, the press loves controversy even if it's completely contrived. Sadly, The Boston Globe and other publications wind-up depicting ID as a contrarian yet legitimate scientific theory. This only spreads the false impressions that IDers have substantive arguments that have not been refuted and that their claims are equivalent to those of biologists.



#33093: ThomH — 07/28  at  03:00 PM
I'm interested in the charge that "the language was so heated", etc.

Gilder and the other IDers accuse thousands of scientists of deliberately and intentionally perpetuating a fraud, lying to their students, colleagues and the public, and doing bad science. Some of Johnson's rhetoric on this is particularly vehement.

Haven't heard much media outrage about that.

Someone writes a vigorous reply to Gilder, and suddenly the language becomes an issue and a daughter is invoked to show that IDers have feelings.

Guess those scientists don't.



#33122: — 07/28  at  09:39 PM
rdb, thank you for the DDT info. I saved that link if it comes up again.

It seems not only is the DDT ban a myth, but in fact the restrictions that Carson et al made us do actually helped us use DDT longer and prevent more malaria.



#33127: — 07/28  at  10:40 PM
How do you like this quote I caught in the Globe story?
I don't think anyone could say it any better.

"Intelligent design itself does not have any content."--George Gilder



#33154: — 07/29  at  01:59 PM
Question: if ID isn't driven by belief in a religious text, why is every single IDist a conservative Christian, Jew or Muslim?

Tsk, tsk... you left out the Moonies and Raelians.

Or perhaps you were counting the Moonies as Christians? I guess they believe in Jesus, so they are Christians, since they believe Rev. Moon is Jesus' little brother; but I don't think that qualifies as "conservative Christian".



's avatar #33210: — 07/30  at  10:32 AM
You people are making a big deal of George Gilder's revelation: "Intelligent design itself does not have any content." But we already knew that. Originally, the Wedge project wanted to finance Creationist research that would generate cogent arguments against evolution, but it failed miserably and haven't seen lately anything published in that area. Intelligent Design never had content and Wedge Project failed to fill it. What remains of Wedge is a persistent critique of evolutionary science, aimed at creating in the minds of the public a mist of doubt and the idea that there is rational possibility of God. In that sense, they are doing an effective job, and Intelligent Design has won a place in the media. The media loves controversy, even if it is totally faked. Now they have a German intellectual Pope to think out new arguments for them.

Quod natura non sunt turpia



's avatar #33225: John M. Price — 07/30  at  12:34 PM
Personally, I think the guy is dead to rights nuts. You don't have to have full blown schizophrenia to be incoherant. I wonder if treating Gilder at all isn't fanning the fuels of his delusions and arming him with tales of persecution.

As I have asked elsewhere, how is Gilder watching any different than the old entertainment of trapsing through mental asylums to see the obviously insane behavior?

He seems much too petulent to feed this way. My bet he'd die on the vine if ignored. Sure, he's funding a return to the dark ages. Still, if ignored....



#33497: — 08/02  at  09:34 AM
Quoth Gilder: "DDT has never been shown to inflict harm on humans or birds. The expert on the subject was Gordon Edwards, who compiled the ornithological record over decades"


I hope he meant to say, "decades AGO." Because Edwards' trifling contributions are all way, way out of date, and he never actually personally did any research on the correlation between DDT exposure and eggshell thinning, and in any event he (and Gilder) was wrong.

http://www.igc.org/envreview/anderson.html

It's funny how these lone-voice kooks cling so protectively to their 30-year-old straw men. Hey, didja know that environmentalists used to be afraid of global cooling? And that the world used to be flat? We don't REALLY know nothing, so ignore the reality you observe right now.... blah blah blah.



#33498: — 08/02  at  09:37 AM
Hmm, the link may not work. Here's the same site via Wayback Machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/20021006100716/envreview.igc.org/anderson.html



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