PZ Myers. 2005 Feb 15. A visitor from space! Err, umm, I mean, Canada!. <http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/a_visitor_from_space_err_umm_i_mean_canada/>. Accessed 2008 Dec 01.

Posted on M00o93H7pQ09L8X1t49cHY01Z5j4TT91fGfr on Tuesday, February 15, 2005

A visitor from space! Err, umm, I mean, Canada!

There's an old cliche in science fiction (and, I recall, one that was also commonly used in grade school short fiction) of putting a twist in the reader's perspective by making him see our world through the eyes of a Martian or intergalactic traveler or being from the far distant future. You know, "The bipedal inhabitants of Planet III do not reproduce by the sensible mechanism of fission, but by by the fusion of haploid gametes, a convoluted process that requires much complex social interaction..." yadda yadda yadda.

That cliche is officially dead.

Reality killed it. You no longer need to postulate Martians, it's enough to have a Canadian visit Florida for a church conference (Toronto Star, free reg. req.). And the message is that when others see us, we look like a buncha dumb, hateful yokels.

The author, Tom Harpur, takes a road trip down from the Civilized North, through Ohio and Georgia, to attend "Left Behind: A Conference on Biblical Prophecy about End Times", starring Tim LaHaye, Gary Frazier, and Ed Hindson. It would be easy to dismiss this as a visit to Crazy Town, and not representative of America at all, but these are a couple of big name evangelicals who sell boatloads of books and mobilize millions of voters and have open access to the White House and are lauded in the media. They may be batshit insane, but they are some of the loudest voices of the Religious Right. And here's the impression they leave on our polite Canadian visitor.

To sum up the essence of the three speaker's messages all that long Saturday, I have never heard so much venom and dangerous ignorance spouted before an utterly unquestioning, otherwise normal-looking crowd in my life. For the $25 fee, the 800 devotees certainly got a plateful.

There were stunning statements about humans having been only 6,000 years on Earth and other denials of contemporary geology and biology. And we learned that the Rapture, which could happen any second now, but certainly within the next 40 years, will instantly sweep all the "saved" Americans (perhaps one-half the population) to heaven, leaving the United States as "a Third World country" with the European Union becoming the revived Roman Empire.

But these fantasies were harmless compared with the hatred against Islam that followed. Here are some direct quotes: "Islam is an intolerant religion — and it's clear whose side we should be on in the Middle East." Applause greeted these words: "Allah and Jehovah are not the same God ... Islam is a Satanic religion ...We will never be able to understand their (Muslim) mentality ... They're going to attack Israel for certain. ..."

Gary Frazier shouted at the top of his lungs: "Wake up! Wake up!" And roughly 800 heads nodded approval as he added that the left-wing, anti-Israel media — "for example, CNN" — will never tell the world the truth about Islam. According to these three and the millions of Americans they lead, Muslims intend ultimately "to impose their religion on us all."

Fundamentalists imposing theocratic rule on a nation? Oh, horrors. That would be terrible.

(Important hint: if mentioning this to a fundie extremist, don't use irony and sarcasm. Stupid people don't understand irony. Any fundamentalists reading this, post questions—I'm sure my other readers will be able to explain it to you.)

The idea of peace in the Middle East was denounced — specially any accord granting any land whatever to the Palestinians.

The two-state concept is unacceptable to American Christians, they argued, because "God gave that land to the Jews through Abraham" long ago. If the Palestinians want a state they must go to Jordan or elsewhere.

A terrible, final war in the region is inevitable.

In a rational world, here's what I would like: our media to treat these nutballs as totally clownshoes poison—the only stories about them would mock their lunacy, rather than putting up a respectful facade. For our politicians to denounce them as dishonest frauds who are dragging our country and the world into the sewer. For our electorate to shun any politician who so much as shakes hands with one of these scamming hatemongers.

It's not going to happen, I know. Everyone's going to go on pretending that LaHaye, Frazier, and Hindson are nice, ordinary folks, while they go on gibbering on the national stage.

Some days I feel like Roddy Piper in They Live. I gotta find me some of those special sunglasses.

Posted by PZ Myers on 02/15 at 11:45 AM
Godlessness • Politics • Weirdness • 1 Trackbacks • Other weblogs • Permalink
  1. Well, I grew up among these people, and I agree in general about them being 'batshit insane.'

    That does not mean, however, that they are wrong about every little thing. In particular, they are not wrong about Christians and Muslims not worshipping the same God.

    Not only does this sort of Christian reject the idea, so do almost all Muslims. In the October-November issue of 'American Muslim,' the organ of what are risibly called 'moderate Muslims in this country,' we find this lambent phrase/warning: Muslims in America are called to bring to the infidels 'the genuine rendition of monotheism.'

    Nothing could be clearer. LaHaye and cronies may have gotten there by illegitimate means, but they got there. Too bad neither Bush nor his more fervent opponents have.
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  12:08 PM
  2. Anthropologists need no longer travel to Melanesia.
    #: Posted by Les Lane  on  02/15  at  12:18 PM
  3. Shorter Eager: As long as they hates them some Muslims, they's on my side.
    #: Posted by paperwight  on  02/15  at  12:20 PM
  4. Once you find the sunglasses PZ, you'll have to have a pointlessly long and drawn out fist fight with Tim LeHaye.

    That'll kick ass.
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  12:21 PM
  5. I dunno if I agree.

    I prefer "Bugfuck Nuts" to "Batshit Insane".
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  12:27 PM
  6. "...the Rapture, which could happen any second now, but certainly within the next 40 years, will instantly sweep all 'saved' Americans (perhaps one-half the population), to heaven, leaving the United States as a Third World country..."- It's nice to know that the Bush Administration is doing everything it can to gratify their policy preferences. Or are they directly taking their advice from these folks? At least it's nice to know that when all their pig-asses are just bacon grease at the Divine Table, the scriptures shall be fulfilled: "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  12:52 PM
  7. Howcome the audience only numbered 800? That's only a gate of $20,000 and from that they had to pay for the hall. I don't think LaHaye can live on an payday that small. I think he normally needs at least 10,000 people to make it worth his while.
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  12:52 PM
  8. They probably didn't pay for the hall; I expect the church donated it, in order to help spread the word, and for the publicity value.
    #: Posted by paperwight  on  02/15  at  12:55 PM
  9. Speaking of They Live, have you seen this?

    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  02:02 PM
  10. They Live also had one of the greatest quotes in cinematic history: "I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubblegum."
    #: Posted by RPM  on  02/15  at  02:09 PM
  11. The Left Behind series notwithstanding, LaHaye and company provide us with loads of free entertainment, and it's just getting better.

    You all saw Kristof's challenge to LaHaye in "Apocalypse (almost) Now", right?

    The "Left Behind" series, the best-selling novels for adults in the U.S., enthusiastically depict Jesus returning to slaughter everyone who is not a born-again Christian. The world's Hindus, Muslims, Jews and agnostics, along with many Catholics and Unitarians, are heaved into everlasting fire: "Jesus merely raised one hand a few inches and . . . they tumbled in, howling and screeching."

    Gosh, what an uplifting scene!

    If Saudi Arabians wrote an Islamic version of this series, we would furiously demand that sensible Muslims repudiate such hatemongering. We should hold ourselves to the same standard.

    Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins, the co-authors of the series, have both e-mailed me (after I wrote about the "Left Behind" series in July) to protest that their books do not "celebrate" the slaughter of non-Christians but simply present the painful reality of Scripture.

    "We can't read it some other way just because it sounds exclusivistic and not currently politically correct," Mr. Jenkins said in an e-mail. "That's our crucible, an offensive and divisive message in an age of plurality and tolerance."

    Silly me. I'd forgotten the passage in the Bible about how Jesus intends to roast everyone from the Good Samaritan to Gandhi in everlasting fire, simply because they weren't born-again Christians.


    This exchange has also been reported on in the
    Boston Globe:

    Tim LaHaye, coauthor of the "Left Behind" series, responded to Kristof via email, after the July column, that he and other Christians would experience "no glee" in watching unbelievers die, and that those who perished would be only the most corrupt sinners who had rejected every last chance to repent. "We don't choose to live next door to such people in this life," LaHaye wrote. "Do you really want to spend eternity with them?"
    </a>
    #: Posted by Cameron "Buck" Williams  on  02/15  at  03:19 PM
  12. The Left Behind phenomenon is as sinister as it is baffling. It's shocking how many Christians believe that the books are an accurate account of the future, a fictionalization of Revelations. It's not. Very few of the Left Behind readers that I have spoken to know anything about its roots of dispensationalism. Most have never heard of John Nelson Darby. Most have never even picked up a Scofield Reference Bible. They are, by and large, conservative nitwits with no ability to think for themselves, devoid of any cultural or historical awareness, apt to think the John Grisham constitutes fine literautre. I stand by that generalization.
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  04:25 PM
  13. And we learned that the Rapture...will instantly sweep all the “saved” Americans (perhaps one-half the population) to heaven,


    And good riddance!

    leaving the United States as “a Third World country”


    By which they probably mean "full of heathens".

    with the European Union becoming the revived Roman Empire.


    Fine with me, as long as there's no Constantine around. I'm pretty sure the slave-based economy won't catch on in the E.U., which is nice.
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  04:37 PM
  14. Ah, the Rapture. This too shall pass. The belief in the Rapture is to my way of thinking no different than the various sects that periodically crop up predicting the end of the world. Most choose a date and then when the date passes and nothing happens, everyone goes home to join some other sect. The only fly in the LaHaye/Jenkins creation is that they haven't given a date yet. Someone should challenge them on that. With their psychic powers of biblical interpretation, surely they can get god, or maybe Jesus, when Shrub isn't tying up the phone lines, to let them in on the schedule. After all , god has to make all kinds of preparation for all those guests when they show up. They'll need clothing, food, accomodations, entertainment and goodness knows what else. And maybe even some mediators from the American Mediation service to keep them from killing each other. After all, putting Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Bill Dembski, Phillip Johnson, Tammy Faye Baker, John Ashcroft, Franklin Graham, Jiimmy Swaggart, and a few other evangelicals in the same room might cause an explosion of biblical proportions
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  04:52 PM
  15. Um, if Jews are amongst all the evil ones who are going in the fire, then how come they're so keen on Jewish Israel?

    I've heard of people saying they're anti-zionist but not antisemitic, but being antisemitic and pro-zionist...?
    #: Posted by Sharon  on  02/15  at  05:15 PM
  16. It's because the _requirement_ for a Jewish Israel figures prominently in Rapture mythology.
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  05:20 PM
  17. Um, if Jews are amongst all the evil ones who are going in the fire, then how come they’re so keen on Jewish Israel?

    The idea is that the Jews have to control all of Israel in order for the Rapture to come. Then they can either convert or burn.

    I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.....


    Guardian Rapture Article
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  05:29 PM
  18. Like Sandals said. IIRC, the Rapture won't happen until Israel is restored (done) all the Jews go back to Israel (not just yet) and the temple is rebuilt (not even close ). There's also some additional claptrap about a red calf, which spurred some dispensationalists to try to breed one. This NRO piece has a pretty good summary (and this is about the only time I'm likely to link to NRO).

    Of course, the Jews are mostly killed in Armageddon and go to hell because they haven't accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior. So pro-zionist and anti-semitic is a pretty description. (There are, FWIW, a fair number of anti-zionist Jews, mostly among the very religious.)
    #: Posted by paperwight  on  02/15  at  05:33 PM
  19. Speaking of They Live, have you seen this?

    They Live, huh? I've always compared him to the skeleton guy on the Megadeth album covers.

    It’s shocking how many Christians believe that the books are an accurate account of the future

    What do you expect? They think the Bible is an accurate account of the past.
    #: Posted by Ben  on  02/15  at  05:38 PM
  20. A fun running review of the Left Behind series. It's not updated a lot.

    http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/left_behind/
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  05:49 PM
  21. Wow. I haven't laughed this hard in some time. Thank you.
    #: Posted by Roxanne  on  02/15  at  06:25 PM
  22. Hey, you guys got all the good lines before I could join in. I'll just repeat one of my old sayings (stop me if you've heard this before): those people had better hope the god they claim to believe in doesn't, because otherwise they're going to get a nasty surprise in the hereafter.
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  07:14 PM
  23. There's a weird air of self-sustaining hysteria to it all. The final, bloody denouement is essential to 'justifying' (in the sense of 'we win') their hateful extremism, so the extremists just add it to the bill and continue merrily along. There's nothing like the smell of moral clarity in the morning...
    #: Posted by Bryson Brown  on  02/15  at  09:26 PM
  24. Evangelists believe that Israel must be controlled by Jews for the Rapture to come, at which time one third of Jews will convert to Christianity and two thirds will die (or the other way around - I'm not sure). Besides, they probably also like Israel as a bone stuck in the Muslims' throat.

    As for anti-Zionist Jews, not all of them are ultra-orthodox. A fair number of them are simply left-wing radicals, such as Chomsky. Hell, I'm nominally Jewish, Israeli-born, and without the slightest trace of Zionism.
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  09:57 PM
  25. Alon, thanks for the clarification.

    Can you explain a bit more about you mean by without the slightest trace of Zionism?
    #: Posted by paperwight  on  02/15  at  10:07 PM
  26. You guys got all the good lines before I could join in.

    Well, maybe there's one more...

    ..."I hope that God does exist. That way, I will (undoubtedly) wind up spending eternity a long way away from all the closed-minded, bigoted, and hypocritical (etc.) fundamentalists et al."

    But, I do like yours, too. It is hilarious to think about the possibility (certainty?) that the hard-core religious people are totally misinterpreting (ignoring) "God's true word," only to be screwed in the afterlife given exactly what they deserve.
    #: Posted by  on  02/15  at  10:49 PM
  27. Well, I don't believe in Canada! Nothing about Canucks in the Bible, including Revelations! I guess none of them hosers is a-gonna git Raptured!
    #: Posted by  on  02/16  at  01:43 AM
  28. For your information, the Red Calf actually is being bred in a farm here in Israel. The Red Calf (or its ashes, I dont know) is sine-qua-non-ante for rebuilding the Temple. One problem is that no one seems to know what was a Red Calf and how did it look. Evolutionary genetics may help to recreate that biblical ruminant. Let me say it in Spanish: "A loco, loco y medio" (i.e., You, crazy? Me, crazy and half!)
    #: Posted by  on  02/16  at  03:35 AM
  29. "That does not mean, however, that they are wrong about every little thing. In particular, they are not wrong about Christians and Muslims not worshipping the same God."

    Funny, that's not what the Koran says.
    #: Posted by  on  02/16  at  05:17 AM
  30. Well technically, not even close-knit cults worship the same god, since it's just a subjective melange of vaguely paternal psychological stimuli.
    #: Posted by Ben  on  02/16  at  05:33 AM
  31. Hmm, yes, an exercise in introductory philosophy, if they don't exist, can we be worshipping the same god?
    #: Posted by  on  02/16  at  05:41 AM
  32. I think this is similar to the old question about: "Is there a sense in which the statement 'James Bond habitually drinks vodka martinis' is more true than the statement 'James Bond habitually drinks Guinness', given that 'James Bond' does not exist?"

    The article reminds me of something the sci-fi author Jack Womack said: paraphrasing, he said he was giving up writing sci-fi set in a dystopian near-future, and was just going to write straight fiction set in contemporary Russia, because it was far stranger and more dystopian than anything he could invent.
    #: Posted by  on  02/16  at  06:09 AM
  33. It's funny you should bring that up PZ. I had a buddy who was doing a report for some grad project sneak a tape recorder into one of those meetings. Maybe even the same one. The shit he recorded was the most immoral, depraved, lunacy I've ever heard coming from an American. It sounded like something right out of a Klan Rally. Hatred, murder, torture, nuclear war ... pretty much anything goes with these sick fuckers as long as it's stamp "For God". I can't even associate with those immoral fucks any longer. I feel even treating them politely is wrong, for it gives their twisted depravity an air of respectability.
    #: Posted by DarkSyde  on  02/16  at  07:31 AM
  34. Can you explain a bit more about you mean by without the slightest trace of Zionism?

    I mean that I'm not a Zionist at all. If I care about Israel more than about Nepal, it's because I am more informed about Israel than about Nepal. On the other hand, most Israelis aren't really Zionists, either, in the sense that they wouldn't leave for another country if they could and Israel became inhospitable. On yet another hand, most Israelis are extremely pro-Israeli in world affairs whereas I am not.
    #: Posted by  on  02/16  at  07:43 AM
  35. This kind of idiocy is rampant in America and it sounds like this guy found a rich source of material. But you should also be aware that there's been a brisk trade in Canada and the UK since time immemorial in stories about how stupid Americans are compared to enlightened Canadians and Brits, and I always bristle a little at the suggestion that there is nobody this dumb or hateful in Canada. I know for a fact that they've got crackpots and bigots there (creationists, even). The main difference is that they're not as politically powerful.
    #: Posted by Matt McIrvin  on  02/16  at  07:59 AM
  36. I know for a fact that they’ve got crackpots and bigots there (creationists, even). The main difference is that they’re not as politically powerful.

    No, the main difference is that they're not as numerous.
    #: Posted by  on  02/16  at  08:06 AM
  37. Oh, I don't know. I suspect there are just as many stupid crazy people in Canada as the US (prorated for the difference in population, naturally). I think it is a difference in power and how they are treated by the media.

    Here, it's more damning to be an 'elitist' than to be the kind of moron who actually believes in the crap in the Left Behind books.
    #: Posted by PZ Myers  on  02/16  at  08:11 AM
  38. "They Live" had a better ending than what I suspect we'll get from fundamentalist Christians who believe this dreck. Plus, it had Charlie Sheen. He at least has a sense of humor about his reputation. The best the Christians can do is Stephen Baldwin. Ick.
    #: Posted by Trish Wilson  on  02/16  at  08:16 AM
  39. ...If they don’t exist, can we be worshipping the same god?

    It's a good question.

    My thoughts are that there are two grand leaps necessary to be a "believer":

    1. God exists (etc.)

    2. Everyone else is exactly as duped as I am - into thinking that we all know who God is, and that we all know exactly what our God desires.

    Of course, the second one automatically assumes that everyone else's God is fake/wrong/satan.

    IMO, if God does exist, He [sic] is seriously pissed off about what the Christians/Catholics/etc. have done with His [sic] name, and about the fact that humans somehow turned religion into a tool of hate and bigotry.
    #: Posted by  on  02/16  at  09:10 AM
  40. Dennett attempts to resolve the James Bond problem (or rather the experimental version of it) through what he calls heterophenomenology - accepting the truth of a work of fiction, as a work of fiction. In heterophenomenological terms, it is entirely appropriate to say James Bond regularly drinks Martinis and totally inappropriate to say he regularly drinks Guinness. On the other hand, if it's not in the text, it's not appropriate (or meaningful) to make a statement on what Bond had for breakfast on a particular day. To apply it to religion, the answer would depend on the individual theist, since every believer has a different conception of their God. You could look at what the Bible and the Qu'ran and the Torah have to say, but that would only apply to a limited number of believers on each side.
    #: Posted by  on  02/16  at  12:29 PM
  41. You know, that isn't really a cliche, it's more of a trope.
    #: Posted by  on  02/16  at  06:13 PM
  42. The idea is that the Jews have to control all of Israel in order for the Rapture to come. Then they can either convert or burn.

    I couldn’t make this stuff up if I tried…..


    Nothing like a little self fullfilling prophecy to make me want to shorten my long term plans.

    Oh, I don’t know. I suspect there are just as many stupid crazy people in Canada as the US (prorated for the difference in population, naturally). I think it is a difference in power and how they are treated by the media.


    Actually I have a theory on this, and you are welcome to use it, if you agree. Very simply, I believe up here in Canada it just too damn cold to really be thinkng about stuff like war. My home province has about 8 months of winter (and damn cold winter at that), so by the time June rolls around, we are just too busy catching up on barbecues to be wasting our time on thinking about starting any wars.

    Trust me on this one, I know how uncomfortable it is to spend time in a trench when it is only slightly below freezing... I would never want to experience being in a trench when it is -40 or colder. Therefore most of us are just content to argue politics and if some right wing nut job wants to fight in the middle of January, all the more power to him.
    #: Posted by  on  02/16  at  10:06 PM
  43. I dunno, the Prussian Junkers were pretty warlike, and northeastern Germany is pretty darn cold.
    #: Posted by paperwight  on  02/16  at  10:52 PM
  44. Paper, Prussians marched southward into the balmy Rhine Valley. It would have been difficult to convince them to attack Finland.
    #: Posted by  on  02/17  at  12:40 AM
  45. The Prussians did go to Finland, until the Reds pushed them out.
    #: Posted by  on  02/17  at  12:45 AM
  46. Actually, Muslims do claim to be worshipping the same God, though under the name Allah. They even claim to recognize Jesus Christ as one of Allah's prophets, along with many others, though they believe that Jesus Christ was not as great as Mohammed was.

    They also believe that the Bible has become corrupted, though not surprisingly, they also believe that the Koran has been perfectly preserved. Even where it says that Jesus Christ was not really crucified but lifted up into Heaven, with some sort of fake crucified in his place.

    And not surprisingly, Muslims reject the Trinity, Original Sin, etc.
    #: Posted by  on  02/17  at  01:54 AM
  47. "They even claim to recognize Jesus Christ as one of Allah’s prophets, along with many others, though they believe that Jesus Christ was not as great as Mohammed was."


    It's more that they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus (or Mohammed, for that matter), but otherwise, yes.
    #: Posted by  on  02/17  at  04:01 AM
  48. On the other hand, if it’s not in the text, it’s not appropriate (or meaningful) to make a statement on what Bond had for breakfast on a particular day.

    Dennett's exactly right. Fictional characters can only exist in the imagination to the point in which they follow the narrative of the medium in which they are described. Therefore, the propositions "James Bond likes Guinness" or "Marcia Brady went to the toilet" are meaningless.

    Actually, now that I think about it, Leopold Bloom is the only fictional character I can think of off the top of my head who had a fully functioning digestive system...
    #: Posted by Ben  on  02/17  at  05:50 AM
  49. I dunno, the Prussian Junkers were pretty warlike, and northeastern Germany is pretty darn cold.

    You have obviously never been on the Canadian prairies in winter. Think more like Siberia.

    In all seriousness though, we do have our share of nutjobs and I am not quite sure why our countries do have large discrepancies like our stance for political issues like war or how the USA has a much higher rate of serial killers. We do share many things in common including media, consumerism and a mainly Christian devoted society. These discrepancies could be because our leanings towards socialism, gun control, and the idea of cultural mosaic that accepts and is even intrigued by or varying cultures.

    I did a sociolgy class back in University as an elective, and one of the guest lecturers (a very intelligent individual IMO) stated that the largest difference in our two societies is in how we look at violence. The US tends to idealize violent people or violence in particular, even to the point where violent actions are sensationalized. He didn't however get into his reasons for why he believed this was.
    #: Posted by  on  02/17  at  07:30 AM
  50. I'd have thought this was the last place where people would take for granted that what sacred scriptures say (or purport to say) would be taken as -- what's the word? -- gospel for how the sectaries actually behave and think.

    What could 'genuine rendition of monotheism' possibly mean except that, in fact, most Muslims do not consider Allah to be the same diety as Jehovah/Jesus/whatever. And, in fact, they have little in common.
    #: Posted by  on  02/17  at  01:51 PM
  51. Erm, that non-Muslims are worshipping the only God there is (according to Muslims) in the wrong way. Obviously.
    #: Posted by  on  02/17  at  04:18 PM
  52. The area with the warmest winters in Canada, the Vancouver area, is also one of the most progressive areas in the country if not the most progressive one. The prairie, the coldest area in the southern third of Canada, is a Conservative/Alliance bastion, whereas Toronto, whose winters are cold but not that cold, regularly votes Liberal. In the USA, the West Coast has relatively warm winters and very progressive politics, whereas the Midwest, where the winter temperatures are often the same in Celsius and in Fahrenheit, is conservative.
    #: Posted by  on  02/18  at  08:51 AM
  53. Actually I have a theory on this. Canada is such a big country that more land would make no sense.
    #: Posted by  on  02/18  at  12:06 PM
  54. Hmmm, so that would explain why the voters of International Falls kept electing those raving rightwingers Humphrey, Wellstone etc.

    When I lived in Iowa, long ago, the congressional districts were redrawn, two east, two central and two west. Everyone agreed that the two eastern districts would be solid Republican, the two western districts would be solid Democrat and the middle ones would be contestable.

    So the western voters promptly elected two Republicans and the eastern districts returned two Democrats.
    #: Posted by  on  02/18  at  12:43 PM